You are the optimum judge of a kangaroo court, Mr. Nobody.
A person either answers your questions the way you deem correct, or they are guilty in your eyes.
Mark Janicello - "Naked in the Spotlight" Swiss TV Interview with subtitles.
- Thread starter petervh
- Start date
You are the optimum judge of a kangaroo court, Mr. Nobody.
A person either answers your questions the way you deem correct, or they are guilty in your eyes.
Nicole
Silver Meritorious Patron
http://www.ingo-heinemann.de/Prominente.htm
You are still promoting the same OSA Propaganda. Thats it. Look behind the mirror.
This has nothing to do with judges, courts or kangaroos. I ask a question, I get no answer, I make up my own opinion from what I've got. That's all there is to it and it's as simple as that.
Dilettante
Patron Meritorious
Well, Dil, this post is not just a reply to you. Your post gives me the opportunity to try and make myself more understandable, so thanks for that.
It's a bit of a "that was then and this is now" issue (actually I have a lot of issues with this video, more than I'd be willing to type). I have no doubt that Mark has been fed the usual cult bullshit at that time, and he didn't have a reason to doubt that. That's just standard modus operandi for the cult, nothing unusual. That was then. But now he's had more than 10 years of time to find out what was really going on, plus he has access to the internet and all the valuable resources that are available today.
That's 10+ years for him to find out that the people wearing the "Scientology kills" t-shirts did not mean him personally, nor his ongoing projects (as far as I can say). These people were just using an opportunity he gave them, to point out the many questionable deaths that had happened and are still happening in that cult. In the ealier days it were Lisa McPherson, Josephus Havenith etc, in recent years there are Shawn Lonsdale, Kaja Bordevich Ballo etc. For a (possibly incomplete) list look here: http://theyshouldnothavedied.wordpress.com/
It would have taken Mark only a few seconds to find this list or a similar one. He didn't do it then, which is understandable somehow, but not having done it now, when all this information is so easily available, and not using this information to find out what these protests really were about, is... well, what can I say? Ignorance is not a crime, but it isn't helpful either.
So what these protesters did was not a personal attack against Mark. In the interview he did not point that out.
His "Elvis" project (and a few others) failed, according to what he says in the video, and he presented is as if it was due to protests and personal attacks against him, which I doubt it was. Let's get real here, for a moment, shall we? Who in their right mind would openly collaborate with a poster boy for that cult? The fact that his contracts had been canceled etc was again not an attack against Mark, it was not done to hurt Mark personally. It was an understandable and kinda predictable act of self-defense by the people involved. He's had 10+ years of time to find that out, but look what he says in the video.
Another word about his "Elvis" project: Mark said he would have appreciated Lisa Marie and Priscilla to come to his aid and give him some support. Again, that was then, and it was an understandable expectation at that time. I would probably have expected something similar from my fellow cultists, had I ever been "IN". But now, in the interview, he could have quoted Elvis himself: http://www.lermanet.com/cos/lisamarie.html but again, he didn't do that. Did the (Ex-?)Scientologist and allegedly best interpret of Elvis-songs not know about this statement? Again, this probably was true for Mark back then, but nowadays Google is just a mouseclick away.
BTW, citing an Elvis quote from a newspaper article wouldn't even have been "Walking a thin line," so he'd have been pretty safe to do that.
The interview was a promo-piece, and a good one at that. I don't have a problem with that - "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk" (roughly translates to "Drumming is part of the profession") as the old German saying goes, but some acknowledgement of valid criticism would not have hurt. Interpreting all criticism as personal attacks against himself did hurt. It hurt his credibility, and it was painful to watch. For me, that is.
Had he ever said something like "Yes, nowadays I know that some protesters had/have a valid point, and it wasn't all about me," which would have taken less than three seconds to say, I wouldn't have said anything. Even if such a sentence hadn't made into the final cut of the interview, I would have taken his word for it right here on this board. If he said something like that, can someone please link me to that statement? I must have missed it.
My conclusion: All in all the interview was a pretty good promo piece, but if the book reads like the interview, i.e. "The attacks were all against ME, ME, ME," and "The cult abandoned ME, ME, ME," then it's not a book I'd want to read. So in that regard, it was a huge fail, at least in my opinion - which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily mean much for the rest of the world.
If the book is not what I expect it to be after seeing this interview, then maybe Mark can learn something from my posts in this thread, so that he can "come up to present time" (apologies for using that phrase), and give better (that'd be more objective) interviews in the future. If he'd be able to throw some more honest self-criticism into the mix, all the better, but that doesn't mean I'd want to see a "Mea Culpa" interview, just a more honest and more realistic acount of what was then and what is now.
Some thoughts about the video:
Time stamp: 00:14:05
Well, this displays a nice package of naivity and ignorance still in action. Yes, the court should have banned, shredded, and ripped to unrecognizable tiny little pieces anything Scientology, long before Mark ever joined, but fact is: They didn't. Even after Operation SnowWhite, they didn't. And you know what? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, because it's everyone's own personal responsibility to make informed decisions. Whoever failed in that regard, has only him/herself to blame.
By the time Mark joined the cult, or soon thereafter, ARS was in existence and there were a few good critical publications that came many years before that. Not having heard of them at that time is an acceptable and understandable explanation, but it's not an excuse. Not back then, and much less today. Mark can worship Xenu (may be spelled X E M U) and fondle his E-meter as much as he wants, that's indeed his personal right and his personal freedom; and that's what it's always been for the past 70 something years, in (West-)Europe as well as in the USA. But having ever been a supporter of a dangerous cult that has done stuff like OP SnowWhite, OP Freakout, and all that other disgusting shit, is something he still needs to take the personal responsibility for, which comes with all these personal rights.
However, I have nothing against Mark Janicello (the person), I don't even object to the ~7 or so advertisement threads on this board, because as I said: "Trommeln gehört zum Handwerk," and as long as Emma is OK with that, I'll leave it at that. I wish him all the best for his future endeavors, and I wish he'd wake up a bit more in the future.
MrN, over and out.
Ps:
@ Emma: The other snippet I mentioned was probably in another video or soundfile, and I CBA (can't be assed) to wade through all of that, so ignore that statement, rip it to pieces, whatever.
Indeed! You make your point very clear, thanks for clarification. I respect your point of view as you present it here and other posts. I'm afraid I may fall under the same category in some respects as Mr. Janicello- I want to understand this about myself to better come to terms with the whole pile of poop. If I were interviewed and answering questions about my objections to scio my only point of reference would be my experience, no forced abortions, no slave labor, no RPF etc. I would not be able to fairly depict the circumstances involving deaths or criminal behavior on behalf of scio other than what I read and hear by others. I can directly correlate real suffering I witnessed due to the stupid tech. Truth is I will likely be in the company of die hard scios this weekend, I adore my family and will keep my objections to myself.
When I am outed as an SP I hope I that I can still maintain some decorum of tolerance for others beliefs and not be as vindictive as the tech would dictate to scio's. My position would be different if only my experience were something other than what it was. I know the atrocities are real and the potential for more suffering infuriates me 
. I owe a lot of thanks to Emma, Ursula, Mark Bunker, Tory, David Love and Anonsparrow among many others. I kindof wish I had the balls to speak up. For now anyway, I'll listen. Seems I am about the only one they can talk to without being turned in. I'm a good listener! Mr. Janicello may have his own agenda 
OK, he does. Let's hope he can spread the disinfectant and help others.Dil
I just had a wonderful conversation with Amy Scobee, author of "Scientology: Abuse at the top." She contacted me after seeing my Interview with Patrick Kees. She tried to post on my blog. However, she couldn't figure out how. I asked her if I may re-print her post using her name, and she said yes.
Amy is reacting to the following post on my blog: http://nakedinthespotlight.blogspot....-exchange.html
I sent Amy an advance copy of my book. Here is what she had to say about it:
Thought I would share the opinion of a very vocal Scientolgy Critic about my book.
Amy is reacting to the following post on my blog: http://nakedinthespotlight.blogspot....-exchange.html
I sent Amy an advance copy of my book. Here is what she had to say about it:
Thought I would share the opinion of a very vocal Scientolgy Critic about my book.
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