My final review of L. Ron Hubbard

[The Oracle]

Who am I?

Nobody important or with any power so please don't go into any hissy fit about the way my eyes see.

You will never know me, or see me, or be in a position of mercy from me so it is only a matter of interest for you.

I sort of see these forums as a grade zero process.

If you could say anything what could you say?

And people begin to say.

It doesn't bother me that Hubbard took drugs or lied about something or came up with solutions that did not work for me.

I walk into Wal Mart and see objects I do not want to buy.

I don't go to the customer service desk and bitch about what I don't care to be pleased by at the store.

Sometimes I buy food beyond the expiration date and do not throw a hissy fit at the customer service counter.

I don't care about uniforms or "proper identies".

I left a theatre when I was 14. Went in to a fancy restaurant to use the restroom and found a girl dying on the toilet from an overdose of heroin. The needle was sticking in her arm and she was leaned against the wall.

I backed out and went up to the bartender and told him. He said he would call 911.

I was living on my own at that time and did not want to get mixed up with the police.

I waited outside of the place for 20 minutes and no help came for the girl.

I went back in and asked the bartender what was up and he said he forgot in the busy lunchour and would call right away for help.

I went back outside and waited again for another 20 minutes and no help had come.

But, he was a grown up in a uniform in a respectable position of charge and responsibility so I trusted him.

I went back with the knowledge this human was dying and asked him why nobody was there to help her and he blew up at me!

"Listen you little bitch, I don't want to fuck up the lunch hour traffic!"

I ran out right away and began running down the block looking for a police officer.

I found one finally and got him to call for help and ran back to the restaurant.

Within five minutes an ambulance showed up with six or seven police and they dragged her out.

She was alive then but died on the floor in front of us.

That's when I got over the uniform effect.

Men with money agenda's.

It wasn't the first dead person I'd seen, the second from a heroin overdose.

I saw a guy die from it a few months earlier in a shooting gallery.

They carried him out in hallway and left him there.

I went to the corner and called the police to report it so someone would come and take the body.

Three days later I was still calling and finally the police officer blew up at me on the phone telling me how New York City police were overworked and since he was dead he wasn't a threat.

They came three days later after the body was all blown up and swelling.

Later, in the Sea Org, I saw 16 year old kids that didn't know how to drive put in charge of ruling the world. A.K.A. CMO.

I saw how fucking crazy they were.

I saw people in a trance. I saw peopled surrendered.

I overdosed from heroin when I was 15 in a shooting gallery in the East Villiage. Yep, whatever you can mock up from that sentance it was ten time worse, the whole package.

I was dead myself for all purposes and about to float on when I realized I had hit the bottom of low as low you can get. I was really familiar with the underbelly of existance.

I set a goal to rise above it all the way to the top and that make me come back to life.

So from there I stumbled into the why behind it all.

I made it from there at 14 to a clear by the time I was 21.

People bitch because Hubbard really didn't have all the proper credentials.

They bitch and blame him for all the fucking groupies that came along and put on a really poor act for a copy of him.

He was published writer and not perfect by any means.

I have met the most dangerous people on the planet and managed to see the good and humane part of them.

This is MY grade zero of these forums and maybe the last post I will ever make.

I saw him as the King of Gypsies with three feet into the magic, five feet into the "proper introduction into society" to make the magic known at all, and 100 feet into all other dimensions.

You could have taken everything he wrote and put it into my hands and I could have made something beautiful out of it.


I regret that I did not do all of that but trust in my own fate that it was not my mission.

Maybe you have the same issue.

I am sorry about all of us including myself that joined staff, contributed to this thing and fucked by dark forces etc etc.

In the end, better to have known than not is my final review.

I am sorry for those of you I have offended by my view of Hubbard as a great man and for those of you that once saw this possibility too.

MMaybe you have moved on to a place I did not visit yet.

I have known many many great men that will not apprear on your newstands.

If Hubbard had not taught me of all the blackness to come down on the Chruch I would not have beleived it with my own eyes.

He spoke of it many times.

I do not see him as the man who ought to be suppressed, harmed or attacked by me personally.

I've seen it from all angles.

I could not have said it with confidence before.

But the fucking science with the meter is just too hard facts to ignore.

Especially with the meter on solo auditing.

I saw things that surpassed my wildest imagination.

I saw things I would never had invented myself.

I even saw things that violated my reality.

But the science was there to lead me.

This is how far down we have sunk that we have to rely on science at all to prove things to us beyond out own knowingness.

If It were not for the science I could not have believed it.

I don't care if Hubbard took drugs or wrote advices that did not work out for the workers.


The fact that he knew of a kid locked in a chain locker and let it go by caused me to to never surrender.

That does not invalidate the magic he led me to.

Anyone could lay me out in public and make me look like a DB if they really put forth the effort.

Would that discount what you can feel about me?

I love Hubbard.

He is the glue that bought us all here together today.

Great men have great flaws.

I will not apologize for them or my love for them.

I have run the clearing course platens.

My love is not synthetic.

I love that he bought us all here together right now.

I am an explorer and so are you.

I know, you know, you wanted to be taken somplace new.

We have had a better life, than those who never knew.

If we beat up the scouts soon nobody will be left standing to lead us anywhere.

That does not mean I am a blind loyalist.

It just means I can appreciate the gifts.

It is all a gift to me.

You, him, the whole fucking package.

T.I.

 

[Vinaire]

Well said!

I owe a lot to Hubbard too.

But I would follow my own path.

As always.

.

 

[lionheart]

Well said TI.

I owe Ron so much too.

He fulfilled my youthful idealism, while I still had some.

He showed me that my path could lead to wonders beyond wonder.

But he also taught me many hard lessons. He taught me that a teacher can be both great and flawed and that his flaws can lead to abuse as great as the wonderful wonders.

His enduring gift to me has been discrimination and his character has taken the blinkers of my idealism and left me with something much more precious, realism!

He was great and good, pathetic and bad. A great teacher to me. He taught me to no longer rely on any source or authority, because for ten years I accepted him as source and authority.

I would not have missed the experience for anything. But I wouldn't do it again! :wink2:

 

[Free to shine]

I am an explorer and so are you.

I know, you know, you wanted to be taken somplace new.

We have had a better life, than those who never knew.

If we beat up the scouts soon nobody will be left standing to lead us anywhere.

That does not mean I am a blind loyalist.

It just means I can appreciate the gifts.

It is all a gift to me.

You, him, the whole fucking package.

T.I.

Yes we are all explorers.

I think that we can have a similar experience and each learn something different from it. Recognising what is a gift and what is not is also different for us all. And mostly it happens when we can truly stand back and view the big picture.

Thankyou for telling your story. My lessons are different to yours, but I can appreciate what you say.

I will never see LRH the way you do, and that is OK. I came at it all from a different angle.

 

[Alanzo]

All the wins I had in Scientology, I gave myself.

Hubbard demanded payment for them. He demanded payment in free work, in love, in unwaivering, eternal loyalty and in money. Always in money. He would have literally taken my last dime and told me that I owed him more.

Always more.

For the wins I gave myself.

There is so much that Hubbard could have done, that he didn't do.

There is so much that Hubbard did, that I would have never done.

Hubbard exploited and abused The Sacred in all of us in order to enrich himself.

And always, always lied.

L Ron Hubbard was a piece of shit.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Well said, TI. It's just a matter of seeing what was good and what was not.

Some people arrive at different conclusions than others.

That's how life is. There's room for us all in a non medieval society.

 

[Tanstaafl]

All the wins I had in Scientology, I gave myself.

Hubbard demanded payment for them. He demanded payment in free work, in love, in unwaivering, eternal loyalty and in money. Always in money. He would have literally taken my last dime and told me that I owed him more.

Always more.

For the wins I gave myself.

There is so much that Hubbard could have done, that he didn't do.

There is so much that Hubbard did, that I would have never done.

Hubbard exploited and abused The Sacred in all of us in order to enrich himself.

And always, always lied.

L Ron Hubbard was a piece of shit.

C'mon Alanzo, it's not like you to sit on the fence.

It's your call whether he was a piece of shit or not, but to say he "always, always lied" is risible.

Also, it's a poor generalisation to assume that anyone was basically the same person over a stretch of decades involving much activity.

Are you sure you're not holding on to some of those feelings of abuse and exploitation in order to make yourself right and/or make Hubbard wrong?

 

[Alanzo]

C'mon Alanzo, it's not like you to sit on the fence.

It's your call whether he was a piece of shit or not, but to say he "always, always lied" is risible.

But if you listen to the tape "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology", a tape played for new prospects in order to recruit them, you will hear Hubbard tell you that he was blinded and crippled at the end of WWII, from a piece of shrapnel he recived during combat, and that he used Dianetics to be able to see and walk again.

That tape was never pulled by Hubbard, ever, in the 36 years he was running Scientology until he died.

He also had that claim placed in the front of every book that he published, and re-published, without ever pulling it. He lied way more than that, too.

And his lies live on to this day.

So yes, he always, always lied.

Also, it's a poor generalisation to assume that anyone was basically the same person over a stretch of decades involving much activity.

When you write your words down, and immortalize them on film and tape, and never change them, and then sell those books, tapes and films to the public for outrageous prices through the organization that you command to exist for eternity, then no, it's not a poor generalization.

Are you sure you're not holding on to some of those feelings of abuse and exploitation in order to make yourself right and/or make Hubbard wrong?

Hubbard was wrong.

Way way less right than he was wrong.

And yes, in my own final review of L Ron Hubbard, I am right about what I say.

I certainly paid for it, right?

 

[Tanstaafl]

But if you listen to the tape "The Story of Dianetics and Scientology", a tape played for new prospects in order to recruit them, you will hear Hubbard tell you that he was blinded and crippled at the end of WWII, from a piece of shrapnel he recived during combat, and that he used Dianetics to be able to see and walk again.

That tape was never pulled by Hubbard, ever, in the 36 years he was running Scientology until he died.

He also had that claim placed in the front of every book that he published, and re-published, without ever pulling it. He lied way more than that, too.

And his lies live on to this day.

So yes, he always, always lied.

When you write your words down, and immortalize them on film and tape, and never change them, and then sell those books, tapes and films to the public for outrageous prices through the organization that you command to exist for eternity, then no, it's not a poor generalization.

Hubbard was wrong.

Way way less right than he was wrong.

And yes, in my own final review of L Ron Hubbard, I am right about what I say.

I certainly paid for it, right?

For fucks' sake! You're a unique, witty, articulate and very intelligent individual - QUIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF!

If anyone else made the post you just did (he lied about one thing so lied about everything) you'd crucify them. You'd also probably say they were hanging on to an ex-Scn identity.

Apply that brilliant mind to your own thoughts, beliefs and behaviours for once.

 

[Alanzo]

For fucks' sake! You're a unique, witty, articulate and very intelligent individual - QUIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF!

If anyone else made the post you just did (he lied about one thing so lied about everything) you'd crucify them. You'd also probably say they were hanging on to an ex-Scn identity.

Apply that brilliant mind to your own thoughts, beliefs and behaviours for once.

I reserve a special place in hell for people who knowingly and willingly and intentionally manipulate and exploit the spiritual vulnerabilities in all of us in order to enrich themselves.

And who do so over and over for 36 years straight without ever coming clean or even reducing it. Hubbard even stepped it up as he got better at it.

This has nothing to do with feeling sorry for myself.

It has to do with how much of a piece of shit L Ron Hubbard was.

He had a choice in how he acted, and, unfortunately, we have those choices still with us today.

This is my final review of L Ron Hubbard. It comes from 16 years of being a Scientologist and 6 years of being out and with new, previously unavailable information.

Yes. After re-evaluating everything, my review concludes that L Ron Hubbard, on the whole, with everything taken into account, was a piece of shit.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I reserve a special place in hell for people who knowingly and willingly and intentionally manipulate and exploit the spiritual vulnerabilities in all of us.

And who do so over and over for 36 years straight without ever coming clean or even reducing it. Hubbard even stepped it up as he got better at it.

This has nothing to do with feeling sorry for myself.

It has to do with how much of a piece of shit L Ron Hubbard was.

He had a choice in how he acted, and, unfortunately, we have those choices still with us today.

In my final review of L Ron Hubbard, after 16 years of being a Scientologist and 6 years of being out and re-evaluating everything, my review concludes that L Ron Hubbard, on the whole, with everything taken into account, was a piece of shit.

Saying he was "a piece of shit" is a point of view. I have no problem with that, although it's simplistic. Saying he "always, always lied" is completely untenable. Even Veda wouldn't say that!

So he could be a cunt. Forgive him anyway. Just for the hell of it and to see what happens.

(Pinches of salt available here on request) I would have created far more vile effects on a far greater scale if I'd been able to carry thru on my plans at a couple of points on the whole track. That makes me no better than Hubbard.

Don't take it so personally. He didn't create the whole show just to degrade Alanzo.

 

[Vinaire]

I reserve a special place in hell for people who knowingly and willingly and intentionally manipulate and exploit the spiritual vulnerabilities in all of us in order to enrich themselves.

And who do so over and over for 36 years straight without ever coming clean or even reducing it. Hubbard even stepped it up as he got better at it.

This has nothing to do with feeling sorry for myself.

It has to do with how much of a piece of shit L Ron Hubbard was.

He had a choice in how he acted, and, unfortunately, we have those choices still with us today.

This is my final review of L Ron Hubbard. It comes from 16 years of being a Scientologist and 6 years of being out and with new, previously unavailable information.

Yes. After re-evaluating everything, my review concludes that L Ron Hubbard, on the whole, with everything taken into account, was a piece of shit.

You ungrateful ...!

.

 

[alex]

snip
Hubbard was wrong.

Way way less right than he was wrong.

And yes, in my own final review of L Ron Hubbard, I am right about what I say.

I certainly paid for it, right?

And you will pay for it for eternity, as long as you continue to create that viewpoint to the exclusion of others.

When you can love Hubbard, you will then be free. As it seems TI has become.

alex

 

[lionheart]

All you have to do is just love that piece of shit Alanzo!

Seriously, I hear you and of course, you are quite correct. He was a liar and a fraud.

I still, just give him the benefit of the doubt over his more "theta" stuff, although there is a doubt that the positive stuff sometimes came from others.

No doubt about it though, you are correct in that he exploited our spiritual natures for his personal gain of wealth and control.

But we've learned something so incredibly valuable haven't we? He was a great liar, a great fraud and therefore a great teacher.

You just need to love the shit, Alanzo!

 

[Alanzo]

And you will pay for it for eternity, as long as you continue to create that viewpoint to the exclusion of others.

When you can love Hubbard, you will then be free. As it seems TI has become.

alex

Ummm, a request:

Please don't presume to tell me about my eternity.

I've had enough of that.

TI has explained herself quite well. She has her viewpoint.

Mine is different.

L Ron Hubbard sought to steal every one of my strengths, and use every one of my most cherished ideals for his own gain.

I don't see anything redeemable in that.

 

[Alanzo]

All you have to do is just love that piece of shit Alanzo!

Seriously, I hear you and of course, you are quite correct. He was a liar and a fraud.

I still, just give him the benefit of the doubt over his more "theta" stuff, although there is a doubt that the positive stuff sometimes came from others.

No doubt about it though, you are correct in that he exploited our spiritual natures for his personal gain of wealth and control.

But we've learned something so incredibly valuable haven't we? He was a great liar, a great fraud and therefore a great teacher.

You just need to love the shit, Alanzo!

I understand everyone's christian sentiments of forgiveness. Even yours, Vinaire.

But when I look at it, in this instance, there is no good that I can see in doing anything other than considering a piece of shit, a piece of shit.

Maybe later it will dawn on me that everything will be so much better if I learn to love pieces of shit.

But right now, I don't see it.

 

[Alan]

And you will pay for it for eternity, as long as you continue to create that viewpoint to the exclusion of others.

When you can love Hubbard, you will then be free. As it seems TI has become.

alex

Which Hubbard do want Alonza to love?

 

[Alanzo]

You ungrateful ...!

.

Ungrateful what?

Come on, Vinaire. Drop that civilized Hindu identity and be a crude, redneck American. Just this once. You know you want to.

Ungrateful what?

Fuck?

Shit?

Come on!!

 

[alex]

Which Hubbard do want Alonza to love?

All of them.

Would that not then put him in the transcendent postition?

alex

 

[alex]

Ummm, a request:

Please don't presume to tell me about my eternity.

I've had enough of that.

If only I thought that I could tell you anything......

I wish for you to be able to live in the naked loving awareness that is available to those who can set aside the value and significance they themselves place on things.

The end to suffering is available.



alex