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Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've just finished reading The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving The Economic Collapse by Fernando Aguirre, where he talks about the Argentine economic crisis of 2001, its causes, its aftermath, and what to do to survive this sort of thing. His world did not come to an end, but for a while law and order broke down completely.

He listed several stages to the crisis:

(1) Prelude: Financiers were ripping off the system. When they stole all the money Argentina had, they got the world bank to lend Argentina huge amounts of cash, all of which went into their pockets, too. All ordinary Argentines got out of it were debts to be paid off in the form of high taxes for the rest of their lives.

(2) Delaying tactics: As the situation got more extreme, a number of artificial tricks were used to postpone the inevitable. These included everything from falsifying the unemployment rate to artificially pegging the peso to the dollar at a 1-to-1 rate.

(3) Crisis: Once the fiction could no longer be maintained, the fat cats fled the country with suitcases full of cash, and the banks were temporarily closed. When they opened again, withdrawals were limited to 250 pesos per week (nowhere near the amount necessary to live on) and all US dollar accounts were converted into pesos. Although the conversion was done at the 1-to-1 rate, the real value was 3 pesos to 1 dollar, soon to become worse.

(4) Breakdown: Many things the people counted on to be there were there no longer. Law and order disappeared outside of the Capital District, electricity was sporatic, proper water treatment was replaced by mere overchlorination, and many of the necessities of life were only available through black markets.

(5) Recovery: This the author did not speak much about, but I suppose now, 12 years later, the situation is much improved. But at the end of the book he's talking about emigrating to the USA. Emigration is what he advises in the event of civil war or sustained economic troubles.

This book is written for people in the USA. Not only is it in English, but he consistently refers to people in the USA as Americans, even though most people in South America consider themselves to be Americans too. And he mentioned that the USA is in the first stages of an economic breakdown (and there are a LOT of people in the USA agreeing with him, enough so that his book is selling well).

Will any of this happen in the USA? Not only has (1) and parts of (2) happened already, I believe its too late to stop the rest. The last delaying tactic will be to seize whatever ordinary Americans have been able to accumulate for themselves and add that to the national purse. In 1933, the USA under FDR not only made the private ownership of gold illegal, they mandated that a Federal tax agent be present whenever a safe deposit box in a bank was opened.

Under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), the feds know who has a foreign account and where, so keeping money outside of the country won't protect it. I suspect the money in those accounts will be seized and replaced by inflated dollars. Legal? no, except in the technical sense of passing a law allowing it. Will they do it anyway? probably.

There WILL be a breakdown, but it won't be as bad as in Argentina. I'm sure the Argentine crisis was studied six ways from Sunday by Washington, and the government is in the process of preparing to minimize the disruption. Police forces are being bolstered by recruiting and training reserves. (While this may minimize crime, the woes of the newly poor will be considered someone else's problem.)

I'll write more about this, but for now here's a link to his book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457 . Note: if you read the preview, and get to the part about where it says "Nuke caught your attention?", that's the back cover, and it's referring to the front cover.

Helena
 

In present time

Gold Meritorious Patron
yeah, i think you pretty much nailed it. it is shocking to me how many people still cannot or will not see it.
looking into the collapse of the soviet union reveals many parallels to our current situation also. there has been a financial coup de tat in this country, with overtones of a dirty war.


dimitry orlav's work is interesting to look into in light of what is happening here.
 

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
I've just finished reading The Modern Survival Manual: Surviving The Economic Collapse by Fernando Aguirre, where he talks about the Argentine economic crisis of 2001, its causes, its aftermath, and what to do to survive this sort of thing. His world did not come to an end, but for a while law and order broke down completely.

He listed several stages to the crisis:

(1) Prelude: Financiers were ripping off the system. When they stole all the money Argentina had, they got the world bank to lend Argentina huge amounts of cash, all of which went into their pockets, too. All ordinary Argentines got out of it were debts to be paid off in the form of high taxes for the rest of their lives.

(2) Delaying tactics: As the situation got more extreme, a number of artificial tricks were used to postpone the inevitable. These included everything from falsifying the unemployment rate to artificially pegging the peso to the dollar at a 1-to-1 rate.

(3) Crisis: Once the fiction could no longer be maintained, the fat cats fled the country with suitcases full of cash, and the banks were temporarily closed. When they opened again, withdrawals were limited to 250 pesos per week (nowhere near the amount necessary to live on) and all US dollar accounts were converted into pesos. Although the conversion was done at the 1-to-1 rate, the real value was 3 pesos to 1 dollar, soon to become worse.

(4) Breakdown: Many things the people counted on to be there were there no longer. Law and order disappeared outside of the Capital District, electricity was sporatic, proper water treatment was replaced by mere overchlorination, and many of the necessities of life were only available through black markets.

(5) Recovery: This the author did not speak much about, but I suppose now, 12 years later, the situation is much improved. But at the end of the book he's talking about emigrating to the USA. Emigration is what he advises in the event of civil war or sustained economic troubles.

This book is written for people in the USA. Not only is it in English, but he consistently refers to people in the USA as Americans, even though most people in South America consider themselves to be Americans too. And he mentioned that the USA is in the first stages of an economic breakdown (and there are a LOT of people in the USA agreeing with him, enough so that his book is selling well).

Will any of this happen in the USA? Not only has (1) and parts of (2) happened already, I believe its too late to stop the rest. The last delaying tactic will be to seize whatever ordinary Americans have been able to accumulate for themselves and add that to the national purse. In 1933, the USA under FDR not only made the private ownership of gold illegal, they mandated that a Federal tax agent be present whenever a safe deposit box in a bank was opened.

Under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), the feds know who has a foreign account and where, so keeping money outside of the country won't protect it. I suspect the money in those accounts will be seized and replaced by inflated dollars. Legal? no, except in the technical sense of passing a law allowing it. Will they do it anyway? probably.

There WILL be a breakdown, but it won't be as bad as in Argentina. I'm sure the Argentine crisis was studied six ways from Sunday by Washington, and the government is in the process of preparing to minimize the disruption. Police forces are being bolstered by recruiting and training reserves. (While this may minimize crime, the woes of the newly poor will be considered someone else's problem.)

I'll write more about this, but for now here's a link to his book: http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Survival-Manual-Surviving/dp/9870563457 . Note: if you read the preview, and get to the part about where it says "Nuke caught your attention?", that's the back cover, and it's referring to the front cover.

Helena

and now for a little "Scientological Spin"....

Please use LRH Policy: "Leaving and Leaves"
 

hpm1999

Patron with Honors
Y A W N! S T R E T C H! Oh blimey the world, GOD and Queen are about to end as we know it yet again. I forgot it is Wednesday afternoon when such predictions flow like the ThAmes to the channel.Time for my 2 pm spot o tea in just a few. A cup o Lipton 2 lumps and a wee bit o cream and all will be right with the world.

But the most important question: what of Man U and their striker problem????
 

RogerB

Crusader
Thanks, Helena . . . useful info.

I have shares in a company mining in Argentina, and again, Argentina is shooting itself in the foot. The latest trick being to prevent any gold mined and or money earned being transferred out of the country. This new edict put in during last year (from memory, might even have been at the beginning of this year).

That stunt has killed foreign investment and development of economic production or expansion of anything.

Rog
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
I'd like to discover some 'financial' fatcs.. But I'm not too good at digging up such data.. However: Recently we all saw Greece getting into financial trouble, with the big loans from EU and all that. Now, what I'm thinking is that Greece has a National Product and a Debt. And the Debt was a whole lot larger than the National Product, so Greece was deemed well in dire straits financially!

Hmm.. USA has a National Product and a Debt.. Actual figures needs to be found to know which country is in the deepest shit? Greece or US..

:unsure:
 

RogerB

Crusader
I'd like to discover some 'financial' fatcs.. But I'm not too good at digging up such data.. However: Recently we all saw Greece getting into financial trouble, with the big loans from EU and all that. Now, what I'm thinking is that Greece has a National Product and a Debt. And the Debt was a whole lot larger than the National Product, so Greece was deemed well in dire straits financially!

Hmm.. USA has a National Product and a Debt.. Actual figures needs to be found to know which country is in the deepest shit? Greece or US..

:unsure:

Yah . . . you need to search for percent of debt to GDP . . . various publications and websites have tables on this . . . .

I even remember some wag pointing out the US's ratio is bigger/worse that Greece, Spain and all those other trouble-makers:biggrin:

Rog
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fernando Aguirre, in his book (see OP) talks about different strategies for surviving the crisis when it comes. Things like what weapons to have, what supplies to stockpile, when to attack someone who is threatening you, and so on. But the best advice is to not be there when it happens. If you wait until the crisis occurs all these things will become a lot more difficult. In particular, attempting to leave the country and go live somewhere else will be a slow and cumbersome process -- if you can get some other country to let you in (which is going to become a lot harder too).

60 grams of prevention is worth a kilo of cure.

Helena
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
So what happens if all the countries in the planet tell the IMF to go swivel?

Or if third world countries' debts from unethical bastard dictators were cancelled? How much did Bush borrow to fight his wars, and does he have a large amount of that in Swiss accounts?

Can the planet declare itself bankrupt and start again?
 

LA SCN

NOT drinking the kool-aid
Yah . . . you need to search for percent of debt to GDP . . . various publications and websites have tables on this . . . .

I even remember some wag pointing out the US's ratio is bigger/worse that Greece, Spain and all those other trouble-makers:biggrin:

Rog

Good thread and there's the rub - finding some true data about the US economy. I found this website and it has the true data:

http://www.nowandfutures.com/key_stats.html
 
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