Self-Fulfilling Prophecies in Scientology Tech

[Infinite]

There's no doubt much of the so called "wins" are self-fulfilling - one need only consider the placebo effect. The more important question, I reckon, is how much of the "wins" are not the result of the auditor's instructions to the hypnotised recipient?

 

[Panda Termint]

There's no doubt much of the so called "wins" are self-fulfilling - one need only consider the placebo effect. The more important question, I reckon, is how much of the "wins" are not the result of the auditor's instructions to the hypnotised recipient?

The majority?

 

[Ted]

It was developed about 1970 as a Flag-only action and exported later for the use of experienced auditors only. My own experience with it is that if the preclear is up to being able to date somethng this precisely on his own, but if he needs meter support to date for him then it is seldom worth the effort. However, I do know of exceptions to this.

I try to avoid D/Ling on a pc as it almost never goes as described in the HCOB. Solo is another story; that's quick and easy.

 

[xenusdad]

Another self-fulfilling prophecy comes from "being exposed to the OT materials before you are ready".

I used to have actual streaks of terror and dread if I thought I ran into OT 3 material. I used to call up people and tell them I am restimulated and what can I do? I used to do locationals on my self, hyperventilate, and have panic attacks over it.

That's because I was told, and I believed, that I had huge amounts of very dangerous "charge" in my mind that, like a kill-switch, I could set it off accidentally if I was exposed too soon, and die.

I was told, and I believed, that the OT levels were going to safely release that booby-trap in my mind that aliens had placed there to keep me imprisoned on this planet. And so, until I did my OT Levels, I was always at risk. Especially as a "Clear".

Funny thing is, when I quit believing in "case" as defined by L Ron Hubbard, I no longer got any of those feelings when I became "exposed" to the OT levels.

L Ron Hubbard's vicious use of these installed phobias on Scientologists is all part of his onslaught to suck everything of value out of anyone he possibly could. And he did not care at all about the suffering he put people through.

If he did care, he would have stopped it.

But he didn't.

This is basically why L Ron Hubbard was a piece of shit as a human being.

^this yes

 

[Zinjifar]

There's no doubt much of the so called "wins" are self-fulfilling - one need only consider the placebo effect. The more important question, I reckon, is how much of the "wins" are not the result of the auditor's instructions to the hypnotised recipient?

Panda says 'The majority' and, strangely enough I'll agree, in this limited context. From what I've heard, the 'auditor' is really *not* feeding the hypnotic commands per se, although, he is directing the session.

*However*, the hypnotic commands are *pre loaded*. The books, the tapes, the 'Org Experience' is the setup. The auditor doesn't 'command' the target to 'remember your past lives', for example, but, the target *already knows* that that's what he is supposed to do. I suspect that that's the case for most 'cogs' and 'wins'. The subject has already picked up on what the 'correct' answer will be over the course of his 'gradient', and, that's the 'pre load' that explains why the gradient is necessary in the first place.

Zinj

 

[Ted]

Short Question, Long Answer Possible

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there must be more in the area of self-fulfilling prophecies buried in Scientology "standard tech."

Any offers?

Paul

Dianetic/Scientology tech is built like a house of cards. That house frequently tumbles down. When it does, it gets propped up again by another addition to the structure.

Here's an example: The single source of human aberration is the engram, per DMSMH.

To clear a person all that the auditor needs to do is find and run out basic engrams leading to the basic, basic engram. This is done by going "earlier similar."

Now here's some addition to the house-of-cards structure: Per grade 4 tech, it is the being not the bank that generates the service fac. That's right. You can still be screwed up and it has nothing to do with your reactive mind. The house-of-cards of Dianetics, already being invalidated by lack of results as projected by Hubbard, is propped by an additional structure called serfac finding and running.

Now if you go to the Level 4 taped lectures you will find Hubbard concluding that series by stating that you, the auditor, will never find the pc's serfac, but go ahead and try anyway.

SO WTF?

Dianetics is based on time track running. Once a person accepts this as true he is likely to go on and on running track whether it is actual experience or not. Back in the day when DIanetics was early on the bridge, before grades, pc's got used to the Dianetic model of expectations. Many, when they started grades processing, would take a simple process that could be answered right in present time, and go off digging on the track for answers. I used to wonder, "Hey, dude, where did you go?"

I could go on and on with this but I just wanted to contribute something to your thread.

 

[Ted]

Bad C/Sing? Bad auditing? Not addressing what the PC wants handled? etc etc etc
The reason could be anything but the most common one in this case would be "No Auditing?" as in; the fear was never properly addressed.

I believe Leon is correct in saying that certain scientology processes can handle fear, as can other therapies. I still remember the day an agoraphobic walked out of her front door for the first time in 14 months.

Perhaps it was a "self-fulfilling prophecy" as *I* was 100% certain I could handle her fear with auditing and my enthusiasm was often contagious.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Panda Termint]

Panda says 'The majority' and, strangely enough I'll agree, in this limited context. From what I've heard, the 'auditor' is really *not* feeding the hypnotic commands per se, although, he is directing the session.

*However*, the hypnotic commands are *pre loaded*. The books, the tapes, the 'Org Experience' is the setup. The auditor doesn't 'command' the target to 'remember your past lives', for example, but, the target *already knows* that that's what he is supposed to do. I suspect that that's the case for most 'cogs' and 'wins'. The subject has already picked up on what the 'correct' answer will be over the course of his 'gradient', and, that's the 'pre load' that explains why the gradient is necessary in the first place.

Zinj

This reads as plausible, Zinj, but it doesn't explain the results obtained on the completely "raw pc".

One of the requirements for the Dianetics Course (I forget which version) was that the Student Auditor grab a completely "raw" person who had no previous experience with Dns or Scn and audited them to a full EP. This was most usually done with a Dianetic Assist (Auditing to relieve a condition) or Relief Rundown (running out a loss/death) etc. These PC's were hardly carrying out pre-loaded hypnotic suggestions or pre-conditioned to expect certain results.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm interested in this subject.

 

[WildKat]

Thank you thank you

Words of wisdom! All hail Wild! Where do I sign up to take your courses? Oh yeah... that's been and done: never again.

Cool words Wild!Like them I do!

Stick with ESMB and you learn a lot! All free, of course!!!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

This reads as plausible, Zinj, but it doesn't explain the results obtained on the completely "raw pc".

One of the requirements for the Dianetics Course (I forget which version) was that the Student Auditor grab a completely "raw" person who had no previous experience with Dns or Scn and audited them to a full EP. This was most usually done with a Dianetic Assist (Auditing to relieve a condition) or Relief Rundown (running out a loss/death) etc. These PC's were hardly carrying out pre-loaded hypnotic suggestions or pre-conditioned to expect certain results.

What are your thoughts on this? I'm interested in this subject.

Nor does it explain what happens when you run Book I style on someone on a train or other public venue and they hit something "juicy" and run it out.

It is amazing how many people will run a past life death easily and without any prompting whatsoever. Nor are these people who necessarily "believe" in past lives in this life.


Mark A. Baker

 

[FoTi]

I thought the Sunshine RD was a POS and I was only a Clear.

I thought the Sunshine Rundown sucked....what a disappointment.

What's a POS? Piece of Sh_t?

 

[FoTi]

Yes, it's a very expensive self-audited Objective Process but very effective all the same (provided it's done as Paul described).

I think I did it about 16 years too late. So, why didn't they know this at Flag?

 

[Panda Termint]

I think I did it about 16 years too late. So, why didn't they know this at Flag?

They did but they were probably more interested in your money than your "case". They have a one-size-fits-all mentality.

 

[Alanzo]

I thought the Sunshine Rundown sucked....what a disappointment.

What's a POS? Piece of Sh_t?

I prefer to call it a "POS".

 

[FoTi]

I prefer to call it a "POS".

I guess POS does look and sound better.

 

[Leon]

That is disgusting evaluation, Leon. Especially as such a state as "Natural Clear" is very iffy in the first place.

Paul

I am quite unrepentant. Alanzo directed a question to me, I answered it fully and truthfully. I am not "in session" with him so there is no reason at all why I should not evaluate.

Furthermore, there is no technical reason at all why a state such as natural clear could not exist. It is perfectly possible.

My answer to Alanzo stands.

 

[Leon]

That's a loooong bow to draw, Leon.
See my answer to Al's question post #51 above: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=425266&postcount=51

Your answer to Alanzo was a good one too. I have no problem with it.

 

[Alanzo]

I am quite unrepentant. Alanzo directed a question to me, I answered it fully and truthfully. I am not "in session" with him so there is no reason at all why I should not evaluate.

Furthermore, there is no technical reason at all why a state such as natural clear could not exist. It is perfectly possible.

My answer to Alanzo stands.

I don't care about "evaluations", Leon. No need to repent.

But it is more likely that the State of Clear is what does not exist.

Nor any other "case state", or "case" that L Ron Hubbard described - in the way that he described it.

And I did not say that I "blew charge" when I realized that "case" did not exist as LRH described it. "Charge" is another completely mocked up thing that a Scientologist conjurs and causes to come in on himself.

Hypnotherapies such as Scientology often implant "realities" that a person can believe and then get into trouble with. The thing is that most hypnotherapists do this by mistake or on accident.

L Ron Hubbard did it on purpose, with the intent of control over Scientologists in order to enrich himself.

That's why L Ron Hubbard was a POS as a human being.

 

[Alanzo]

Your answer to Alanzo was a good one too. I have no problem with it.

Panda's answer to me was like this:

You are babysitting the little boy next door, and he wants to play with his Army Men.

So he gets them out and spreads them around on the floor. You have your army men and he has his.

He starts making explosion noises and machine gun noises and you "fire back" and say "I got your headquarters!"

The little boy starts crying.

So you say, "Here! Your canon got my headquarters!! I'm on the run!!!" and you start moving your remaining army men backward in retreat.

The little boy immediately stops crying and starts laughing, coming after you with his army - victorious in his mind. And way more "up-tone".

He would blow so much charge and his needle would be floating, too.

The little boy had trouble distinguishing the reality of his situation.

You really didn't blow up his headquarters.

He never had army headquarters in the first place.

He's just a little boy who lives next door.

See?

That's what Panda's handling for my "fear" would have been like, had anyone attempted it in 16 years of auditing, including DofPs which created C/Ses designed to take it up.

It was a cult-installed phobia. And I believed it. It's like "Satan is going to get you." or "You will burn in hell for all eternity unless you come to Church every Sunday."

A cult-installed phobia.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.

 

[Alanzo]

Another angle on "self-fulfilling prophecies" in the tech is the Scientologist dramatizing the tech.

For instance, in the PTS materials, Hubbard says that "ALL SICKNESS AND ALL FOUL UPS STEM DIRECTLY AND ONLY FROM A PTS SITUATION". Or something close to that.

It can act like a command to the Scientologist who believes it.

If a Scientologist gets sick, then they start looking around to people they are PTS to.

Or if someone "invalidates" them, they will turn on a runny nose and get sick.

It is a very insidious situation to get yourself into when you start believing in Scientology.

You start to dramatize what "the tech" tells you is true.

You play the part you are supposed to play.

Why?

Because people are basically social. "Who they are" is largely made up from how others see them. The tech gives you roles to play. And the tech gives you all kinds of self-identities to wear, and to "be".