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As demonstrated by higher TA readings when using finger electrodes.
Metering & Needle Phenomena in Auditing
- Thread starter Mark A. Baker
- Start date
As demonstrated by higher TA readings when using finger electrodes.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Or by checking TA readings with different size cans. Or by holding two regular cans in the same hand as for solo. Or, for that matter, by holding those same two cans in opposite hands but only grasping as much of the can as one would if holding the cans in one hand as for solo auditing.
I did wonder what the limit would be on this. How low would the TA go if one's entire body were encased in metal touching the skin? Might make the session a bit uncomfortable, although the reads would be big.
Paul
Or by checking TA readings with different size cans. Or by holding two regular cans in the same hand as for solo. Or, for that matter, by holding those same two cans in opposite hands but only grasping as much of the can as one would if holding the cans in one hand as for solo auditing.
I did wonder what the limit would be on this. How low would the TA go if one's entire body were encased in metal touching the skin? Might make the session a bit uncomfortable, although the reads would be big.
Paul
Paul,
If the body was encased in metal, the electricity would go through the and wouldn't go through the body based on the law that electricity will find the shortest route to ground. Metal has less resistence than flesh.
Rob
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yes, but I meant it as the limiting case of increasing the metal-skin contact. For example, skin-tight armour from fingertips to shoulder on each arm, with each arm hooked up like a can. Extend that to skintight armour down each leg etc. Obviously if the "cans" are shorted out it's not going to work.
Modify the above to make it workable. There is no need to point out the obvious difficulties in literally doing what I suggested.
Paul
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
Only certain parts of the body give reads. The skin on the hands and feet works but the skin on other parts of the body gives a higher resistance. Skin on the fingertips is the most responsive then the palms then the feet. I've checked every part of the body (yes, there too).
With modern low noise amplifiers the high skin contact area isn't needed so the best reads are obtained by using the most responsive skin and amplifying it. Thus the fingertip electrodes. Cans were necessary in earlier times because only very noisy transistors were available and the reads couldn't be amplified very much. They could have been thrown out in the 80s or earlier.
With modern low noise amplifiers the high skin contact area isn't needed so the best reads are obtained by using the most responsive skin and amplifying it. Thus the fingertip electrodes. Cans were necessary in earlier times because only very noisy transistors were available and the reads couldn't be amplified very much. They could have been thrown out in the 80s or earlier.
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
duplicate
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
No. The meter does not react to electrical flow, but to the potential for it. The meter literally measures resistance to electrical flow rather than any flow itself. Yes some minute amount of current does flow, but that is incidental and only a function of the circuitry needed to measure the increase and decrease in resistance.
In Scientology theory it is the increase or decrease in mass which affects the resistance, giving the indication of the attributes of thoughts, though not the actual thoughts themselves. It may indicate the arrival of a thought but not its content, it may indicate that the thought is being unconfronted or that it is strongly accepted, but not why. The meter can not tell if a though is a truth or a lie only that the person reacts as if it were.
Electrical resistance could be thought to change simultaneously over the body as a whole, as the body is fairly uniform in conductivity. The nerves pass information, not current, but that information is not thoughts but control signals for the body.
The mind and the nervous system are two fairly distinct things.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
That's very interesting, Ralph. What known body factors does this correlate to?
Paul
The figures for "Male Clear read" and "Female Clear read" were taken from US military data regarding the electrical resistance of dead male & female bodies.
This was clearly stated in some early book on the e-meter i have somewhere. Maybe even the early 50's book by john Sanborne.
Regards, Allen
This was clearly stated in some early book on the e-meter i have somewhere. Maybe even the early 50's book by john Sanborne.
Regards, Allen
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Hmmm. Does anyone have access via the friend of a friend or something who could actually measure a few cadavers? Since the TA of a live body depends on the amount of skin contact as well as other factors I'm not sure how one would work it with a dead one.
Paul
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
Volar skin characteristics.
Ralph Hilton
Patron Meritorious
You would need a freshly dead corpse as they dry out.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Volar as opposed to dorsal (like in forearms), or volar as in simply palmar and plantar? Why is it only the fingertips, palms and soles read on a meter? Is it because of skin thickness? Number of nerve endings? A certain layer of skin missing? A layer of something else present or absent? Lack of hair follicles?
Do you know? I'm really very interested in this as I think it would add a great deal to the weight of any argument as to how the meter reads.
Paul
The volar layer is the layer that contains the sweat glands. The glands are interconnected and the conductivity depends on the *number* or percentage of sweat glands turned on at any particular time. Not necessarily the sweat produced, but merely 'activation' by the 'central processing unit'
The volar layer is *not* particularly conductive to deeper layers of the skin, or, to and through the body itself; so, the 'current' is running through the layer and not though the 'body'.
So, the easiest 'path' is through the volar layer itself, and that conductivity changes in direct response to signals from the brain, which is, however, not itself in the 'path' over the 'nerves' etc.
Zinj
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
As you can tell, I don't know what "volar" means.
Zinji, I am looking for what is different about the fingertips, palm and sole. Why do they read on the meter when other skin surfaces like the thigh or back don't? If you even hinted at an answer to that I missed it.
Paul
As you can tell, I don't know what "volar" means.
Zinji, I am looking for what is different about the fingertips, palm and sole. Why do they read on the meter when other skin surfaces like the thigh or back don't? If you even hinted at an answer to that I missed it.
Paul
The simple answer is that they have more sweat glands, so, they show more 'change' in conductivity. Probably any area could be used, but, at some point signal/noise becomes important. Fewer sweat glands; less signal, but, same amount of 'noise'.
Zinj
Lesolee (Sith Lord)
Patron Meritorious
from an online collection of SHSBC notes ...
6209C27: 3GA Listing, part II, Tp.3
But as far as exactly reading on the Clear read, you should know that five thousand ohms and twelve thousand five hundred ohms is standardized only on fifteen people. That’s the original standardization. And that wasn’t a very good standardization, don’t you see? It was accurate, it was accurate, and it has held amazingly accurate. But what is amazing about it, is that it has held accurate. Do you see that? What’s amazing about it, is that they do go to five thousand ohms for a female and twelve thousand five hundred ohms for a male. I mean, that’s rather fantastic when you come to think about it.
6209C27: 3GA Listing, part II, Tp.3
But as far as exactly reading on the Clear read, you should know that five thousand ohms and twelve thousand five hundred ohms is standardized only on fifteen people. That’s the original standardization. And that wasn’t a very good standardization, don’t you see? It was accurate, it was accurate, and it has held amazingly accurate. But what is amazing about it, is that it has held accurate. Do you see that? What’s amazing about it, is that they do go to five thousand ohms for a female and twelve thousand five hundred ohms for a male. I mean, that’s rather fantastic when you come to think about it.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Sorry. Good bamboozle-them-with-bullshit answer, but no cigar.
I'm excerpting these figures from a paper at http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=435616&blobtype=pdf entitled QUANTITATION AND REGIONAL DISTRIBUTION OF SWEAT GLANDS IN MAN.
Distribution of functional sweat glands on different body surfaces:
[There were ten body surfaces checked for five people. I'm just showing the figures for the five people on three body surfaces — the forearm extensor surface, the thenar eminence (palm area), and the back of the hand]
252-180-195-x-225
368-264-440-146-200
410-260-480-416-320
There is little difference there, certainly not enough to account for one reading well and the other two not appreciably.
To be fair(ish), here are the figures for part of the face:
14-1-7-65-20
Assuming Ralph included the back of the hand and the forearm and they didn't read, then that ain't the why.
Paul
knn
Patron Meritorious
knn
Patron Meritorious
Also the eyes? You know that the eyes have the most direct contact to the brain (anatomically eyes are considered part of the brain). Or the eye lids?
Since they say that eyes are the mirror/window of the soul.
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