Steve Hall's post on closed Indy Facebook group

[loose cannon]

You've just reminded me something.

As a reply to Steve's patterns, I'm going to quote some Ruth Minshull's paragraphs.

(Quoting Steve's patterns)
I'm getting a little tired...I left the Church...I studied the scene...I found people...I spoke up LOUD and CLEAR...I didn't make any agreements...because I believed in HELPING...Marty came online almost immediately thereafter (implying that Steve Hall is the first, best, most, biggest, friendliest, earliest, youngest, longest, fastest, etc.)...

"I AM SOMEBODY"
His oversized ego and aggressiveness frequently win him a position as boss. He appears to be a man of action, but usually he merely creates a flurry that's mostly noise. When the dust settles, we can see that little was accomplished.
Since his blustering distemper thrives best in a climate of emergencies, he frequently creates them.
He knows exactly how to handle people: "Tell them off," "I say, shoot em all," "You gotta be tough to get along in this world."

(Quoting Steve's patterns)
The Freezone FAILED because you guys...you guys quietly went about your business...You guys should've...You don't...You don't...You don't...You aren't...You think...You SOLD US OUT...you sold us out...You never...while you were having...Your entire group...because you cooperated...You have no right...you NOTHING...You refused to wear your hats...You guys feel...YOU ARE...trying to prove you're right...you aren't...Your Freezone stinks!

"I'M RIGHT WHENEVER I'M WRONG"
This one tells you what's wrong with things; that's all he tells you. You're wrong; they're wrong; it's wrong. The only thing he never says is "I'm wrong." He's always right – even when he's wrong. Don't try to confuse him with facts. This isn't the only tone trying to make others wrong (every tone below 2.0 does it one way or another), but the 1.5 is direct about it. You always know where you stand with him; you're wrong, of course, just by being there.

-- Ruth Minshull, How to Choose Your People, Chapter 11: Anger

Now the question is, is that Steve's chronic tone? Or is it his tone regarding the Freezone? Or did just a Freezoner piss him off?

 

[loose cannon]

Re: Marty: A Talk To OSA Staff (video)

APIS clearly states on its site it does not follow the path of CO$.

That's just PR.

My observations of their actions are very similar to Paul's. For a few years I was a member of IFAchat and it felt much like in Co$.

Also on Terril's forum, when it was much a place of free speech, before Terril screwed it up 2 years ago, the IFA guys acted like the toughest, most unpleasant posse.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Dude, in the world of Standard Scientology, there is no such thing as "Paul's Robot". It's "squirrel" and eventually you/it will have to be (what's the terminology?) "hammered out of existence". I just don't see a happy alliance there.

I know. But I believe in pushing the envelope.

One interesting point disrelated to PaulsRobot is auditing over Skype. Apart from the telepathic metering aspect of it, which isn't essential to the concept and is really over-the-top for many, I'm curious to see how that idea starts to break through some walls. It has such huge advantages in terms of cost and convenience for both auditor and client, and gradually more working (not theoretical) auditors are embracing it.

Paul

 

[degraded being]

Re: Marty: A Talk To OSA Staff (video)

DEGRADED BEING

.
Hope this doesn't derail. A detail brought up something I have often thought about.

I don't know if it's worth anything amongst everything going on in FZ -OSA drama land
but one thing Steve mentioned was OSA trying to screw up cases of pcs by getting squirrel auditing going in their groups etc.

In the 80's I met an indie group boss (before they were called indies) and they told me that the GO (I think it was still GO and not yet OSA-but not sure on that detail) had sent infiltrators in, who brought false bulletins in so wrong auditing would result to fuck up people's cases.

I have noticed that although some indie's want to be 'standard', one or two encourage such an 'anything goes' attitude, that it seemed strange that they stuck firmly to 'anything goes' using scientology tech. If you see what I mean...if they were that loose, it seems they would have shaken themselves out of scientology altogether and tried some other things....but no, on and on for decades with scientology through a blender. It doesn't make sense to me. Not that I think standard tech should be used, or non-standard tech should not be used. That experience of meeting that indie boss stuck with me...so whenever I hear an indie encouraging such looseness that it would either mess up your case, or get you very confused to the point of making you no threat to the COS, because you would not have gains, or results I wonder if they are on OSA's payroll. I guess I am just tinfoily eh?

This is all looking at it from a scientologist point of view, in or out of COS. It has nothing to do with what gains I think a person would or would not have.

TERRIL

That OSA might try such a thing is quite concievable. However its very unlikely to work. Their are plenty of highly trained Techies in the FZ and plenty of Red Vols and material packs.

You're not one of the highly trained ones are you?

 

[Infinite]

..

These are the Indie Scientologist Facebook Guidelines. They were posted and discussed here not so long ago:

Indie Scientologist Group Guidelines

By Karry Campbell in Indie Scientologist

Indie Scientologist Group Guidelines

Independent Scientologists are Scientologists who recognize that the current Church of Scientology management is out-ethics, out-tech and off policy and is thus losing the technology of Dianetics and Scientology.

Indie Scientologists have declared Independence from the Church of Scientology and wish to freely practice our faith without harassment.

We are not here to smear L. Ron Hubbard. LRH put together the workable technology that is Scientology. Other groups, sites and blogs are free to voice their opinions on such. I don’t want to be a part of that kind of group. Here, I like to help others. Stating facts are fine. Questions are fine and welcome.

In this, understand that this is an Indie SCIENTOLOGY group. The definition of the group is in the name. The source of Scientology is LRH and Scientology is the technology that we like to use in our daily lives. Yes, LRH was far from perfect – as we all are – but he also produced lots of stellar and usable stuff! Why carp on his personal foibles?

Anyone persistently advocating anything other than strict adherence to the 10 points of HCO PL 7 February 1965, Keeping Scientology Working Series 1 – by L. Ron Hubbard shall ultimately be removed from the group as an Ethics Gradient. Examples would include: Promoting Out Tech, promoting any auditor that does over the phone or Skype auditing, anything about auditing above OTVIII, the Ron’s Org Bridge, etc., etc…

Should a person so removed later wish to rejoin the group they may do so after they have shown and proven that they can be advocates for the 10 points of Keeping Scientology Working – by L. Ron Hubbard.

We advocate “Knowing How to Know” and respect those informing themselves on and applying the techniques of other subjects. So don’t disrespect those of us here who are Scientologists and prefer to use the tech developed by L. Ron Hubbard by calling what you do, Scientology.

That being said, henceforth those that are not On Source and In Tech are not welcome to post anything they want to here. If you’re not sure what On Source or In Tech is, FIND OUT! In order to maintain the integrity of our group (Indie Scientologist) – we cannot allow it to become a procurement area for PC’s or students for “squirrel groups”. These groups condone and in many cases, deliver “tech” not authored or authorized by L. Ron Hubbard. If you want to do that, fine. Just do it somewhere else.

Posting quotes, policies, etc. that are 100% LRH are completely welcome.

I will not stand for any attacks on Mark “Marty” Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Steve Hall or anyone who is fighting the good fight like them. They are doing what is right. If you have a problem or disagreement with them or what they do you need to take it up them or somewhere else and take yourself off of this group’s list. You’ll not be welcome here.

Also, do not lead others to look at entheta sites via this forum. If you are getting out of Non-E, you may quote what you wrote or talk to the person one on one via their message option. Directing others to anti-LRH or anti-Scientology sites is not our purpose.

This group is primarily for Independent Scientologists. If you are not an Independent Scientologist but agree with our views then you can join this group to support us. If you wish only to criticize Scientology or LRH, please take yourself off of the group list.

Those who persist in flouting the guidelines predicated here will be removed involuntarily.

To maintain decorum, discussions should also be largely free from ridicule and name calling. PMing others to talk to them is preferred to resolve any personal issue.

All kinds are welcome here, and you can believe what you want, but asking weird questions alluding to Black PR of the old man or being an LRH critic is unappreciated. Realize that this is not an “EX SCN” board or group.

This group is a place to meet friends (old and new) who you know will respect you and LRH. You can even coordinate activities, i.e. – like what Christie is doing.

Also, please wear your “Security Hat”. Since this is a closed group and we do not want our security to be violated or betrayed, I’m asking that no one inappropriately disseminate or “cut and paste” any posts that appear within this forum to anyone else. If you need someone to read an Indie Scientologist post or if you want to inform others about this group, the person may join the group by requesting to join like everyone else did.

Also, PLEASE make sure that any posts from the Indie Scientologist group are blocked on your main Facebook page. This will further keep our group unsullied by outside influences.

Finally, do not bring Dev-T to this group – meaning: “unusual and unnecessary traffic”. In LRH’s (HCO PL 2 Jul 59 II) “Developed Traffic, The Delirium Tremens of Central Orgs” this concept is stated perfectly – “You are manufacturing new traffic because you aren’t handling old traffic. Developed traffic does not mean usual and necessary traffic. It means unusual and unnecessary traffic.”

Love, Karry Campbell

Contrast and compare . . .

We of the Church believe (inter alia)

That all men have inalienable rights to think freely, to talk freely, to write freely their own opinions and to counter or utter or write upon the opinions of others.​

 

[Smilla]

All what we're hearing about is typical of Scientology: denunciations, accusations of criminality and insanity, etc. It all comes from the 'Tech' of Scientology, which is 95% negative in focus. It has many names for 'bad' people and 'bad' actions, but says little about good people, and good actions. Scientology paints a picture of the world and the people in it as a dark place full of people with evil intentions.

The world just isn't like that. People aren't like that.

That was why I left Scientology. I just became aware that my perceptions of the world and people was being shifted and manipulated to the extent where I was developing an *induced* anxiety state.

They make people think that everything is dark and Scientology is your hope. So you use Scientology and miss all the good stuff that's happening because you've had your focus shifted to spotting and noting only the negatives. You can't just be happy and enjoy life, because 'you have to wear your hat as a Scientologist'.

It's not worth it, and the world doesn't want it.

 

[Thrak]

Arrogance bread by Hubbard himself. No one is better than a "real Scientologist".

"Real Scientologists are right and everyone else is wrong."

"[Insert convenient Hubbard quote here] proves that I am a real Scientologist and you are not."

Typical, predictable and that is why the Church is splintering.

Are you sure about that? Or was Elron just a beacon calling for fellow under achieving egomaniacs to unite? In tubbo's own words "the not quite bright have a big button on self importance" - or whatever the exact words were. Probably his dig at anyone dumb enough to take him seriously which unfortunately I have to include myself.

 

[Dulloldfart]

These are the Indie Scientologist Facebook Guidelines. <snip>

This is amusing:

Indie Scientologists have declared Independence from the Church of Scientology and wish to freely practice our faith without harassment.

AFAIK no-one ever refers to Scn as a "faith" except in pseudo-religious legal/PR writings or speech. AKAIK no cultie thinks of it as a "faith." Even those who believe it to be a religion (I used to) would stay away from the "faith" word, as Hubbard was scientific and only spoke science and truth, and faith never came into it.

Now, as Gadfly has so carefully pointed out, Scientology in fact almost wholly requires its adherents to have faith in it, as so much of Hubbard's "facts" are unverifiable, and many of those that are checkable don't bear up too well under the scrutiny.

Anyway, to finally get around to the point, this Karry person, supposedly one of the staunchest possible Indies if she is allowed to frontmouth this FB group, is either exactly parroting the cult's PR line, or else admitting that Hubbard's stuff has to be taken on faith!

Hee hee.

Paul

 

[MissWog]

All what we're hearing about is typical of Scientology: denunciations, accusations of criminality and insanity, etc. It all comes from the 'Tech' of Scientology, which is 95% negative in focus. It has many names for 'bad' people and 'bad' actions, but says little about good people, and good actions. Scientology paints a picture of the world and the people in it, as a dark place full of people with evil intentions.

The world just isn't like that. People aren't like that.

That was why I left Scientology. I just became aware that my perceptions of the world and people was being shifted and manipulated to the extent where I was developing an *induced* anxiety state.

They make people think that everything is dark and Scientology is your hope. So you use Scientology and miss all the good stuff that's happening because you've had your focus shifted to spotting and noting only the negatives. You can't just be happy and enjoy life, because 'you have to wear your hat as a Scientologist'.

It's not worth it, and the world doesn't want it.

YES!!! Exactly... the world I live in is not like that and I'm doing great!! And I think everyone needs to stand up to this crap! I have never seen anything like this.. my mind is blown! And this is unhealthy. It's backwards folks.. you don't ruin your life just to rebuild it.. find something else to make you happy..you are the minority at some point you gotta realize no one needs you to save them.. we are all living out here in the fresh air doing fine..crushing souls just to build them back up with love bombs is abusive..and I don't want you touching the children. Want a war? There are plenty going in already in world..why create a new one??

I mean really?????? This kinda of statement does not cross a healthy person's mind.. EVER

"A handful of us are working our guts out to beat Deadline, Earth.
On us alone depends whether your kid will ever see sixteen or your people will ever make it at all.
A handful of us aren't nattering or dramatizing or whining or waiting. We've got our sleeves rolled up for a twelve hour day and sixty hour week."

 

[degraded being]

On Scientology's scale of Vermin, Snakes and Rodents is "skunk" higher or lower than "squirrel"? Just askin'

Snakes and rodents squirrels and vermin
whose on top is hard to determine.

 

[loose cannon]

All what we're hearing about is typical of Scientology: denunciations, accusations of criminality and insanity, etc. It all comes from the 'Tech' of Scientology, which is 95% negative in focus.

I think it's rather a matter of ethics and policy. I'm almost afraid to say it here, but when I was active in the Ron's org, the ubiquitous feeling was "sunny". Nevertheless, I interacted with many Frezoners who dramatized the Church's crap beyond belief, mainly Americans (but here in Europe they are present too).

 

[Infinite]

Snakes and rodents squirrels and vermin
who's on top is hard to determine
A Scilon would think
That they all stink
And, to prove the point, deliver a sermon.

: )

 

[degraded being]

I've exchanged a few interesting emails with Steve Hall in the past few hours. I've been trying to get PaulsRobot3 reinstated as an auditor on his http://freeandable.com directory site. A few weeks back he said he would but it needs a new category and he's been very busy on a project but he would get to it. I got the idea he was genuinely busy and *would* get to it, as if not I don't think he would have had any problem telling me to get fucked. . But he has never been anything than ultra-polite and nice to me in our communications. And today he said he hoped to be wrapping up that project very soon and would get onto the PaulsRobot matter.

Anyway, he asked some very interested questions about PaulsRobot and how it should be categorized and how I originally came up with it and so on, which I explained at length.

I know what was quoted earlier on this thread. But I don't think he is as one-dimensional as is being painted.

Paul

I assume a huge being like him is pan determined and can have any viewpoint at will, if it suits him.

 

[degraded being]

All what we're hearing about is typical of Scientology: denunciations, accusations of criminality and insanity, etc. It all comes from the 'Tech' of Scientology, which is 95% negative in focus. It has many names for 'bad' people and 'bad' actions, but says little about good people, and good actions. Scientology paints a picture of the world and the people in it as a dark place full of people with evil intentions.

The world just isn't like that. People aren't like that.

That was why I left Scientology. I just became aware that my perceptions of the world and people was being shifted and manipulated to the extent where I was developing an *induced* anxiety state.

They make people think that everything is dark and Scientology is your hope. So you use Scientology and miss all the good stuff that's happening because you've had your focus shifted to spotting and noting only the negatives. You can't just be happy and enjoy life, because 'you have to wear your hat as a Scientologist'.

It's not worth it, and the world doesn't want it.

 

[Veda]

Do I want to be handled by Scientology... again?

Marty Rathbun&Friends are in the midst of an attempted handling, and "wogs," "exes," and even "Freezoners" are subject to that handling.

Various subtle and not so subtle approaches are being used, and the opening post on this thread is a glimpse at what is occurring behind-the-scenes, and a glimpse at the mind-set that exists behind the PR, the "help," the politeness, the "ARC," and the advocacy for such things as freedom of speech and human rights.

These are some very confused folks. "Slow cogniters" for sure. And they are "handling" us - they think.

But "us," being "handled" by them does not help us or them.

We don't need their help. They need our help.

Right now, unfortunately, the best help I can offer to these folks is to spot their deceits and manipulative ways, and their mis-information, and to alert others.

Oddly enough, this helps them, as it prevents the attainment of one of their main objectives: making chumps of us all.

With enough gentle "push back," they might begin to snap out of the Scio-trance.

 

[Sindy]

I've exchanged a few interesting emails with Steve Hall in the past few hours. I've been trying to get PaulsRobot3 reinstated as an auditor on his http://freeandable.com directory site. A few weeks back he said he would but it needs a new category and he's been very busy on a project but he would get to it. I got the idea he was genuinely busy and *would* get to it, as if not I don't think he would have had any problem telling me to get fucked. . But he has never been anything than ultra-polite and nice to me in our communications. And today he said he hoped to be wrapping up that project very soon and would get onto the PaulsRobot matter.

Anyway, he asked some very interested questions about PaulsRobot and how it should be categorized and how I originally came up with it and so on, which I explained at length.

I know what was quoted earlier on this thread. But I don't think he is as one-dimensional as is being painted.

Paul

He's not. Here's a cool thing about Steve, besides the fact that he's soon to be a new dad, he's a great singer.

 

[Veda]

He's not. Here's a cool thing about Steve, besides the fact that he's soon to be a new dad, he's a great singer.

Good for him. Fact remains, his web sites are loaded with Hubbardian oobleck.

Oobleck that will ultimately hinder, not help, others.​

 

[guanoloco]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTi2wesiHg

What bullshit. At about 2:25 or so to 2:30 Ratbrain is stroking Hall about being the first, best, most to blow the whistle.

Have these people totally forgotten about Veritas and Botwo the squirrel as still exists at sc-i-r-s-ology.com.

Johnny come latelys.

Anonymous Mailings One

Anonymous Mailings Two

 

[Veda]

Sc-i-r-s, etc., IMO, is not a reliable source of information.

Someone should obtain and scan the first several editions of the 'Free Spirit' magazine, from 1983, 1984, and 1985.

 

[guanoloco]

I agree, Veda, however neither is Marty, the Indie movement or the FreeZone. All of them being pro Ron to a greater or lesser degree.

The point is that Mr. Hall is not the first, best, most by a very long shot.

But, just for the record, you're not saying that you don't agree that the Marcabs, spearheaded by the IRS and Miscavige, have infiltrated the Church, right?