The Mayo Challenge

[VaD]

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. I did not realise at first but it seems that most, if not all, of you are still Scientologists. I am not.

When I originally left I was of the belief that it was just the current management that were altering the subject. But there are many different levels of "out", just as there are different levels of being "in" (ie The Bridge). I get the impression that most of the people here are still on the step where you believe the subject is salvageable, and that once Miscavige is gone all will be rosy once again, and you can go skipping down the lane holding hands.

I am all the way out. I completely and utterly despise Scientology, and I will do everything that I can do to cause its destruction.

I am not looking to repackage it, or reform it. In my opinion there are no redeemable factors in the subject. It is rotten to the core. Anything "good" about it was simply a means to an end for the creators of Scientology, and was used as a piece of bait at the end of the fishing line to reel in the big fish. It's all about money. Scientology does not care about people, and it breeds that mentality in its senior members. Once financially used up people are cast aside like a vampire does with its victim. Next.

The theetie-weetie message from Julie Mayo has no impact on me. It is just a thinly-veiled attempt to get me to reveal my identity. Read it again. Why would she want me to do that? That factor alone is the biggest red flag about her intentions. Scientologists are masterful manipulators of people's emotions, and she has got you all swooning over her (probably made-up) little story about the friend who betrayed her. So what.

The big question is: Why is her husband and herself coming forward right now with their names exposed? What is their agenda?
I know there has to be one, and I suspect that it is because the official CoS is finally cracking at the seams. All of the senior execs who have bailed like Rinder and Rathbun and are setting up shop for the Game Of The Century... "Mmm Hmm, we need to be in on this action".

Money.

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

You are a big bullshitter, aren't you?!

 

[justsayin']

You are a big bullshitter, aren't you?!

i just see a very "sad effect".

 

[uniquemand]

Thanks for your opinion, therealnouser. It would be interesting to know why you think people here are still scientologists.

Here's a clue: if, while studying the Book of Mormon, you came across a concept such as "praise and revere God", and at first associated that concept with Mormonism, that could be understood. If, later, you decided that Mormonism, as a whole, was a dangerous cult to warn people about, would this mean that the concept "praise and revere God" would necessarily also be dangerous and something to warn people about?

Some people who are ex-scientologists reject all concepts and language concerned with the cult of scientology. Others, such as myself, reject many concepts and terms used within the cult, but continue to see value in others. It sounds like you might be lumping myself and others who have that sort of viewpoint in with Scientologists. I think that is fallacious reasoning. It's an excellent way to discount people, gives a pretext for attacking them, but I think it's also a great way to lose access to intelligent people whom you might otherwise find valuable resources.

Your argument that Mayo should be able to take it because he completed services that you, yourself consider to be bullshit seems self-contradictory. If you are looking for justifications for continuing to badger or attack him, I would work a little harder towards logical consistency, because to me, it's totally transparent. If you have a specific beef with him, he's already agreed to listen to your views and try to learn from them.

If you want to remain on the attack, this is your right. Please don't pretend to justify the attacks with falsehoods and hysteria, though.

 

[JohnnyRUClear]

Good post, uniquemand. I will add my opinion that "being all the way out" would mean that you are now independent enough in your thoughts and emotions that you don't become enturbul--uhhhh, I mean bothered... by using words/phrases from the cult. You are now at cause ov--uhhhhhhhhh, I mean you are able to use them and not be affected emotionally or psychologically by their presence in your life. They are just words like any other words, tools in your verbal toolbox available for your use if they just happen to be the best fit in a particular sentence within a particular conversation.

The lack of that state, OTOH, would be evidenced by you getting upset when these words/phrases occurred around you. That would be evidence that you are almost all the way out, but not quite; you've still got a butto--uhhhhhhhh, I mean the jargon still bothers you.

JMO

 

[FoTi]

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

Forum Rules

1. Treat others with respect.
You are to respect every other user on the board despite any personal, religious and political differences. The following will not be tolerated:

Personal insults
Ad hominems
Threats or promotion

What part of this do you not understand?

 

[Purple Rain]

I am Purple Rain

I am Purple Rain and I am NOT a Scientologist. There is still deprogramming to be done, to be sure, even after 18 years out. It tends to be discovered more by others at this point, particularly if they have some knowledge of the cult and have never been in it.

But call me any other name in preference, thanks. That's how I feel. That comment was deeply insulting to me. Just because I can appreciate people who may or may not have differing views doesn't make me a fan of Scientology.

 

[Kutta]

hats Get this Intoya,

Why don't you go flat out, sit down with a cuppa and take a squiz at our mean as list of Kiwi slang. No worries bro if it looks a bit munted, she’ll be right, it’s just the way Kiwis talk in En Zed. After reading this, blow me down if you won’t be stoaked when it comes to speaking here. But don’t go half pie, go all out eh, and earn yourself some Maori roast, a handle or some hokey pockey.

http://www.newzealandslang.com/

As soon as I read Julie's bit about having a cuppa and a couple of bikkies, i knew she'd imbibed the great kiwi sayings David has clearly not forgotten.

 

[Julie Mayo]

Thank you for pointing this out

Like you TheRealNoUser is a very new poster and could be someone who is in the process of dumping the cult and is not obeying orders (OSA) at all, unfortunately anger can be a part of the process and though I regret that David was targeted it seemed to me to be an honest (from his viewpoint) communication about scientology which is (in part) what ESMB is here for.

Many of us choose to be anon for many reasons and that is completely acceptable here and means little in the grand scheme of things, it's a personal choice.



Welcome to ESMB, it can be a bit rough but most of us are big softies underneath all the bluff and bluster!

I may have been way out of line by asking The RealNoUser to come forward and reveal himself. I apologize. I'm trying to sort out how to deal with the situation of people with hidden agendas. This time it appears likely that his agenda was exactly as stated.

I'm going to try to clarify why I'm posting on this forum. I left Scientology well and truly many years ago. But those reading the internet might, (and some do) get a different idea. I want to clarify my position and connect with old friends.

 

[uniquemand]

Look forward to it, Julie.

 

[Julie Mayo]

Why I'm posting under my real name

David and Julie didn't have to register here under their own names. In fact, few people do so. I wonder why they both did? Nobody demands to see proof of credentials from a person who just calls herself Myrtle_the_Turtle, or something.

You ask a good question. The reason is quite simple, (although I plan to go into the explanation in more detail elsewhere). We need to explain ourselves in our own words. People are posting about us in various places on the internet. There is a lot of erroneous information out there. This information is read by a people who I meet on a day to day basis and not always with the best of consequences.

The world is a different place since the internet. I'm a huge fan of it and really support efforts by people to make it free. But with this comes people posting things about people that are incorrect. I'm convinced that part of this is unintentional. They think what they are posting is correct, but they either don't remember it correctly or they heard it second hand and believed it to be true.

I really don't know the answer to all of this but what has become very clear to me is that a person has to speak up. (Something I always do but I think not enough.) My purpose for speaking is not to talk about Scientology. I have settled with the C of S long ago. The purpose of my posting is to talk about myself, my own thoughts, my own experiences. (And to connect up with many friends whom I've lost touch with.)

Why post on this forum? Because it is for exes. Exes understand other exes. I'm an ex. Also, because many of my friends reside here and I want to hang out with my old friends.

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

David Mayo was essentially (in action, if not in title) the ecclesiastical leader of Scientology for some years, handpicked, hand-trained by Hubbard himself.

He's come onto this board posting that he never created a cult.

He asked for examples of how we, the post readers felt he had indeed created the cult.

Using Hubbard's own definitions - isn't creation some sort of "continuous effort to put it there" or something like that?

In his career he did LOTS of "create" in Scientology.

Now I want to know:

1. Does he believe in Clear? Harmonics of Clear?

2. Past lives? Where's Ron? Are they in comm? Why is Ron blown from post?

3. Space aliens stuck on or around one's body or attached by strings or stuck attention?

4. Does he have any evidence for any of these states? Is he OT? Can he prove it?

5. How has he resolved for himself the terrible abuse of mentally ill PCs at Flag while he was the Senior C/S there - this part bravely revealed by Karen Jensch here on this board?

The OP here may be rude. He may not be polite.

But, he has a point!

What if Ron started posting here?

Would we be reminiscing with him about tea and crumpets at St. Hill?

 

[Gottabrain]

I thought that was a beautiful post, Julie. I can only say that we do what we do at the time. Sometimes we think we're doing the right thing and other times we know we're doing the wrong thing and in between we're just not sure. It is obvious that you valued the friendship, and your soft heart wanted to spare him the shame. You could have exposed him, but what would it have benefited? You all knew what was up, and you all knew you knew. I think you handled the situation with grace. Not everyone would agree with me. Some people would put more value on the inherent truth or honesty of the encounter. I really think it depends what you value most at the time. I don't think there is anything wrong with valuing the person. Perhaps it would have been kinder to confront him so he didn't have to live with the guilt, but the intention was to be merciful.

We all wonder that sort of stuff about our lives.

I for one don't blame anyone for Scientology except myself. It was destructive for me and my little kids beyond measure. I was vulnerable and gullible. But I made my own choices. Nobody put a gun to my head. There were so many bad choices I made every day. In the end there was the straw that broke the camel's back. The objection I couldn't push down any further. The final sum of the equation that my mind had been working on in the background for five years. I was a victim, but I was a willing victim, and I was also an oppressor. Somebody who spat out the catechism to 'raw meat' about Scientology being compatible with Christianity whilst remembering the staff briefing about how Jesus was a paedophile. Somebody who said you could keep your religion whilst knowing what Scientology said about 'other practices'. Somebody who sat there and said "If you buy this Dianetics book you can improve those areas of your graph" whilst knowing that reading the book would do nothing - and that even auditing would lead to a path that would cost way more than most could afford. That even if it worked - something I wasn't seeing in the 'OTs' around me - they would never have enough money to access the benefits. I told them that if they joined staff they would get up the Bridge, knowing that just didn't happen in real life. And I never really thought I was lying, yet I knew I wasn't being straight. This way of approaching 'the truth' as something that can be formed into whatever I need it to be, has caused me so much grief in my personal life really, and so much pain to those that have loved me.

Anyway, I digress. I just thought it was a lovely post that you made.

Great post! Thank you for your integrity and courage facing these things and for coming through them all to tell others about it honestly.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. I did not realise at first but it seems that most, if not all, of you are still Scientologists. I am not.

When I originally left I was of the belief that it was just the current management that were altering the subject. But there are many different levels of "out", just as there are different levels of being "in" (ie The Bridge). I get the impression that most of the people here are still on the step where you believe the subject is salvageable, and that once Miscavige is gone all will be rosy once again, and you can go skipping down the lane holding hands.

I am all the way out. I completely and utterly despise Scientology, and I will do everything that I can do to cause its destruction.

I am not looking to repackage it, or reform it. In my opinion there are no redeemable factors in the subject. It is rotten to the core. Anything "good" about it was simply a means to an end for the creators of Scientology, and was used as a piece of bait at the end of the fishing line to reel in the big fish. It's all about money. Scientology does not care about people, and it breeds that mentality in its senior members. Once financially used up people are cast aside like a vampire does with its victim. Next.

The theetie-weetie message from Julie Mayo has no impact on me. It is just a thinly-veiled attempt to get me to reveal my identity. Read it again. Why would she want me to do that? That factor alone is the biggest red flag about her intentions. Scientologists are masterful manipulators of people's emotions, and she has got you all swooning over her (probably made-up) little story about the friend who betrayed her. So what.

The big question is: Why is her husband and herself coming forward right now with their names exposed? What is their agenda?
I know there has to be one, and I suspect that it is because the official CoS is finally cracking at the seams. All of the senior execs who have bailed like Rinder and Rathbun and are setting up shop for the Game Of The Century... "Mmm Hmm, we need to be in on this action".

Money.

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

I think there are lots of non CofS Scn'ists here but my impression is that the majority of people here are also done with the subject, just as you are.

I think that maybe David Mayo is accepted by some of those folks for reasons other than "hey, we both like Scn stuff." Just a thought. I could be wrong.

Yep, I remember you from a.r.s.

Claire Swazey
(Fluffygirl)

 

[Gottabrain]

David Mayo was essentially (in action, if not in title) the ecclesiastical leader of Scientology for some years, handpicked, hand-trained by Hubbard himself.

He's come onto this board posting that he never created a cult.

TINO, Hubbard created the cult. I think you've read far too much into David Mayo's answer. Left to his own devices, he created something about as opposite to the cult as anything one could imagine - and rescued thousands out of the cult as a result.

He has paid his dues. Many have not. The huge splash he made getting others out and helping them and the decade or more of attacks he endured for it is what I remember him best for. It is what he did after he left that impressed me. He got more out than any single other person ever did in the history of the cult - and without a terrific group like Anon to back him up, either.

 

[Gadfly]

<snip>
I for one don't blame anyone for Scientology except myself. It was destructive for me and my little kids beyond measure. I was vulnerable and gullible. But I made my own choices. Nobody put a gun to my head. There were so many bad choices I made every day. In the end there was the straw that broke the camel's back. The objection I couldn't push down any further. The final sum of the equation that my mind had been working on in the background for five years.

I was a victim, but I was a willing victim, and I was also an oppressor. Somebody who spat out the catechism to 'raw meat' about Scientology being compatible with Christianity whilst remembering the staff briefing about how Jesus was a paedophile. Somebody who said you could keep your religion whilst knowing what Scientology said about 'other practices'. Somebody who sat there and said "If you buy this Dianetics book you can improve those areas of your graph" whilst knowing that reading the book would do nothing - and that even auditing would lead to a path that would cost way more than most could afford. That even if it worked - something I wasn't seeing in the 'OTs' around me - they would never have enough money to access the benefits. I told them that if they joined staff they would get up the Bridge, knowing that just didn't happen in real life.

And I never really thought I was lying, yet I knew I wasn't being straight. This way of approaching 'the truth' as something that can be formed into whatever I need it to be, has caused me so much grief in my personal life really, and so much pain to those that have loved me.

BUMP! THAT ^^^^^

So much truth and honesty.

Should be required reading for every active Scientology participant, along with a few essays and demos to drive the message home on a PERSONAL level.

++++++++++++++++++

 

[TheRealNoUser]

Thank you This is NOT OK !!!!
I finally feel like someone else gets it.

You have said many things more eloquently than I certainly could. It is certainly appreciated.

 

[Atalantan]

Good post, uniquemand. I will add my opinion that "being all the way out" would mean that you are now independent enough in your thoughts and emotions that you don't become enturbul--uhhhh, I mean bothered... by using words/phrases from the cult. You are now at cause ov--uhhhhhhhhh, I mean you are able to use them and not be affected emotionally or psychologically by their presence in your life. They are just words like any other words, tools in your verbal toolbox available for your use if they just happen to be the best fit in a particular sentence within a particular conversation.

The lack of that state, OTOH, would be evidenced by you getting upset when these words/phrases occurred around you. That would be evidence that you are almost all the way out, but not quite; you've still got a butto--uhhhhhhhh, I mean the jargon still bothers you.

JMO

I agree with the direction of your post, Johnny.

In fact, if he was really "all the way out" he wouldn't even be posting here, much less "opterming" the way he is. He would be out living his life.

He comes across as just as much "attached" to scientology as he ever was, only has flipped to opposing it rather than supporting it. Not "out" at all, emotionally, not free of it at all. He feels he would be free of it if it did not exist at all. Good luck with that, because it's what's internalized that counts.

 

[Julie Mayo]

Out of line, perhaps.

When I joined ESMB I took the name literally. It is apparent that it is a misnomer. I did not realise at first but it seems that most, if not all, of you are still Scientologists. I am not.

When I originally left I was of the belief that it was just the current management that were altering the subject. But there are many different levels of "out", just as there are different levels of being "in" (ie The Bridge). I get the impression that most of the people here are still on the step where you believe the subject is salvageable, and that once Miscavige is gone all will be rosy once again, and you can go skipping down the lane holding hands.

I am all the way out. I completely and utterly despise Scientology, and I will do everything that I can do to cause its destruction.

I am not looking to repackage it, or reform it. In my opinion there are no redeemable factors in the subject. It is rotten to the core. Anything "good" about it was simply a means to an end for the creators of Scientology, and was used as a piece of bait at the end of the fishing line to reel in the big fish. It's all about money. Scientology does not care about people, and it breeds that mentality in its senior members. Once financially used up people are cast aside like a vampire does with its victim. Next.

The theetie-weetie message from Julie Mayo has no impact on me. It is just a thinly-veiled attempt to get me to reveal my identity. Read it again. Why would she want me to do that? That factor alone is the biggest red flag about her intentions. Scientologists are masterful manipulators of people's emotions, and she has got you all swooning over her (probably made-up) little story about the friend who betrayed her. So what.

The big question is: Why is her husband and herself coming forward right now with their names exposed? What is their agenda?
I know there has to be one, and I suspect that it is because the official CoS is finally cracking at the seams. All of the senior execs who have bailed like Rinder and Rathbun and are setting up shop for the Game Of The Century... "Mmm Hmm, we need to be in on this action".

Money.

As for all of you gathering around Mayo to protect him, that is pathetic. He has probably done more of "The Bridge" than any of you, including all the OT Levels. He is supposed to be a powerhouse of a being. And you are all upset because of my words? I mean c'mon ! The way you are all acting - it is as if I have attacked little 5-year old Suzie Cottonbritches in the playground and I'm punching her senseless. You are all gathering around in defense.

This is a grown man who helped create the most destructive cult on the planet, and my words are hurting him? Give me a break.

I guess time will show what his agenda is.

P.S. Yes, Voltaire. I have had this moniker for over a decade.

I'm sorry that I asked to you reveal your true identity. I apologize.

No, I am not on this board for money. I have not been a Scientologist for a long time. One thing I would ask of you is to treat everyone with dignity. Everyone deserves that regardless of their religion, past or present.

 

[Gottabrain]

I'm sorry that I asked to you reveal your true identity. I apologize.

No, I am not on this board for money. I have not been a Scientologist for a long time. One thing I would ask of you is to treat everyone with dignity. Everyone deserves that regardless of their religion, past or present.

Hi Julie!! Love your posts. I've just been catching up on reading them and haven't yet had a chance to welcome you to the Board.

So please accept a belated WELCOME TO ESMB from me!!

Thanks for being here and posting. You have so many worthwhile observations and insights, it's wonderful to see your contributions.

 

[Veda]

Fifteen years ago, David Mayo wrote, "I am not a Scientologist now and have not been for many years." And just recently, David Mayo has written some posts on ESMB. In addition to that there are oft quoted excerpts from the 1986 interview with Russell Miller, and also the 1991 article on 'Clear' that appeared in the 'Free Spirit' and 'IVy' magazines.

I'm seeing questions being asked that were answered yesterday or the day before, and in some instances were answered years ago.

Considering the delicate nature of the situation, how about you guys doing your homework first?