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How people get "cemented in" to Scientology

Veda

Sponsor
Until I see some clear substantiation of that fact, I will assume otherwise.


Dan Koon and Russ Williams were in the RTRC unit at that time. According to them DM never altered any particular backlog materials Hubbard left behind for them to complete. DM did have his hands on other facets to some extent, but not in any alterations of any HCOBs.

Show me even one single HCOB except for the 5-HCOB "Co-Auditing Series" after the Survival Rundown was cancelled that is any different than the same in the '76 Vols that clearly indicate the '91 set is in error?

The 1991 Volumes were altered where necessary. Re. important issues, that might have produced bad PR: they were severely edited. Behind-the-scenes - confidential - issues were created with the same dates and titles as the public issues. There was - as has existed before - visible and confidential versions.

You were implanted during your training, and I tried to help you recover.

I did my best.
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
The 1991 Volumes were altered where necessary. Re. important issues, that might have produced bad PR: they were severely edited. Behind-the-scenes - confidential - issues were created with the same dates and titles as the public issues. There was - as has existed before - visible and confidential versions.
Go ahead show me where such edits took place which were not Hubbard instructs that differ between the '76 & '91s?

That means "show", not "talk".

Unless your name is one of the above, you weren't there.
 

Gib

Crusader
Until I see some clear substantiation of that fact, I will assume otherwise. (It's assumed we are referring to the HCOB by that name in question.)


Dan Koon and Russ Williams were in the RTRC unit at that time. According to them DM never altered any particular backlog materials Hubbard left behind for them to complete. DM did have his hands on other facets to some extent, but not in any alterations of any HCOBs.

Show me even one single HCOB except for the 5-HCOB "Co-Auditing Series" after the Survival Rundown was cancelled that is any different than the same in the '76 Vols that clearly indicate the '91 set is in error?

well, according to 1965 KSW, everything was perfect, why all the changes by Hubbard later on?
 

Veda

Sponsor
Go ahead show me where such edits took place which were not Hubbard instructs that differ between the '76 & '91s?

That means "show", not "talk".

Unless your name is one of the above, you weren't there.

I've no further interest of changing your mind, and don't want to argue about old HCOBs.

Believe what you wish and remain frozen where you were years ago.
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
well, according to 1965 KSW, everything was perfect, why all the changes by Hubbard later on?
Why did Hubbard revise, add on and publish new material subsequent to 1965?

He'd been doing that from what 1947 through 1985/6.

I don't think anyone was left with the impression in KSW that Hubbard's research would cease with that PL.

I certainly didn't.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
Ladies and gentlemen, this is a textbook example of cemented in scientology.

3860879-3984641462-derai.gif
 

Gib

Crusader
Why did Hubbard revise, add on and publish new material subsequent to 1965?

He'd been doing that from what 1947 through 1985/6.

I don't think anyone was left with the impression in KSW that Hubbard's research would cease with that PL.

I certainly didn't.

What do you mean from 1947?

I certainty when I read KSW in 1986 believed everything was perfect.
 

Anonycat

Crusader
The Affirmations appear to have been intended to be used as a form of self-hypnosis with the intention of resolving the author's psychological problems and instilling a positive mental attitude. They are closely linked to the occult philosophy of Thelema, devised by Aleister Crowley in the early 20th century, in which Hubbard participated for a while during 1945–46. In her book Inside Scientology: The Story of America's Most Secretive Religion, Janet Reitman calls the Affirmations "the most revealing psychological self-assessment, complete with exhortations to himself, that [Hubbard] had ever made."[SUP][1]

At some point around 1946 or 1947, Hubbard is said to have composed what have become known as the "Affirmations" or "Admissions". They appear to have been written with the intention of reading them into a recording device and playing them back to himself as a form of self-hypnosis.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] They came to light in the 1984 court case Church of Scientology v. Gerald Armstrong when the Church of Scientology's former archivist, Gerry Armstrong, read sections of them into the record against the strong objections of the church's lawyers. Other sections of the document were subsequently posted on the Internet by Armstrong after someone anonymously emailed a copy of the Affirmations to him in 2000.[SUP][8][/SUP] The name "Affirmations" was given to the document by Omar V. Garrison, a British writer hired by the Church of Scientology to write an official biography of Hubbard.[SUP][9]

The church has taken contradictory positions on the authenticity of the Affirmations. In the Armstrong case in 1984, Hubbard's wife's lawyer acknowledged that the document, written in Hubbard's own handwriting, was by Hubbard himself and claimed that it was part of his "research". It was, he said, "far and away the most private and personal document probably that I have ever read by anybody." Armstrong's lawyer agreed, commenting that "most Scientologists . . . if they read these documents would leave the organization five minutes after they read them."[SUP][10][/SUP] The church argued that they constituted "a kind of self-therapy". It later backtracked, claiming that Hubbard had not written the document.[SUP][11][/SUP] However, as part of the agreement with the Church of Scientology that settled the 1984 case, Armstrong was required to return "all originals and copies of the documents commonly known as the 'Affirmations' written by L. Ron Hubbard". As religious studies scholar Hugh Urban comments, "here the church clearly indicates that the text was written by L. Ron Hubbard, and it seems difficult to understand why the church would file suit to retain ownership of the text were it not an authentic document."[SUP][6]

[/SUP][/SUP][/SUP]
Course I


Sara "Betty" Northrup, Hubbard's "young, beautiful, desirable" second wife


The first section sets out Hubbard's aim in writing the Affirmations. He describes it as an "experiment" whose purpose "is to re-establish the ambition, willpower, desire to survive, the talent and confidence of myself".[SUP][1][/SUP] He refers to his anxieties and insecurities, particularly relating to his writing and naval careers: "I was always anxious about people’s opinion of me and was afraid I would bore them. This injected anxiety and careless speed into my work. I must be convinced that I can write skilfully and well . . . I must be convinced I have succeeded in writing and with ease will regain my popularity, which actually was not small." His naval career was a source of angst (a theme to which he returned in the other sections of the Affirmations); he wrote, accurately enough, that "my service record was none too glorious".[SUP][11][/SUP]
Sex and relationships are a major theme in Course I. Hubbard writes that he is ashamed of his frequent affairs and his determination to succeed with the "young, beautiful, desirable" Sara, though he admits that he is hindered by impotence: "I want her always. But I am 13 years older than she. She is heavily sexed. My libido is so low I hardly admire her naked."[SUP][11][/SUP] He had suffered sexually transmitted diseases and was treating his impotence with testosterone supplements. He wrote: "By eliminating certain fears of hypnosis, curing my rheumatism and laying off hormones, I hope to restore my former libido. I must!"[SUP][7][/SUP]
Hubbard appears to have believed that he could overcome his insecurities and physical weaknesses by focusing on a series of positive statements. Thus:

  • "I can write."
  • "My mind is still brilliant."
  • "That masturbation was no sin or crime."
  • "That I do not need to have ulcers any more."
  • "That I am fortunate in losing Polly and my parents, for they never meant well by me."
  • "That I believe in my gods and spiritual things."
  • "That my magical work is powerful and effective."
  • "That the numbers 7, 25, and 16 are not unlucky or evil for me."
  • "That I am not bad to look upon."
  • "That I am not susceptible to colds."
  • "That Sara is always beautiful to me."
  • "That these words and commands are like fire and will sear themselves into every corner of my being, making me happy and well and confident forever!"[SUP][7][/SUP]
Course II

Hubbard (left) as a US Navy officer, 1943. His unsuccessful naval career was a major preoccupation of the Affirmations.


The second section comprises the statements that have been referred to as the Affirmations. Hubbard appears to have intended them to be self-hypnotic, as they start with the command "You are asleep."[SUP][7][/SUP] He was well-known to his peers as an accomplished hypnotist and liked to give demonstrations of his abilities. In one demonstration to the Los Angeles science fiction society in April 1948, he hypnotised almost everyone in the society's clubroom. One member was convinced he was holding a pair of miniature kangaroos in the palm of his hand; another was persuaded that the floor was becoming so hot that he took off his shoes; and a third had a ten-minute conversation on an imaginary telephone with an equally imaginary car salesman.[SUP][12][/SUP]
Many of the Affirmations relate to Hubbard's health problems, which were recorded at length in his Veterans Administration files; for instance:

  • "Your eyes are getting progressively better. They became bad when you used them as an excuse to escape the naval academy. You have no reason to keep them bad."
  • "Your stomach trouble you used as an excuse to keep the Navy from punishing you. You are free of the Navy."
  • "Your hip is a pose. You have a sound hip. It never hurts. Your shoulder never hurts."
  • "Your foot was an alibi. The injury is no longer needed."[SUP][13][/SUP]
Others concern Hubbard's views towards women and sex, a significant issue in his life (he was to have three wives and seven children, with numerous other affairs on the side):

  • "Testosterone blends easily with your own hormones . . . You have no fear of what any woman may think of your bed conduct. You know you are a master. You know they will be thrilled. You can come many times without weariness . . . Many women are not capable of pleasure in sex and anything adverse they say or do has no effect whatever upon your pleasure."
  • "You have no fear if they conceive. What if they do? You do not care. Pour it into them and let fate decide."
  • "You can tell all the romantic tales you wish.… But you know which ones were lies . . . You have enough real experience to make anecdotes forever. Stick to your true adventures."
  • "Masturbation does not injure or make insane. Your parents were in error. Everyone masturbates."[SUP][14][/SUP]
Some of the Affirmations relate to Hubbard's views on how he related with others:

  • "You have no urge to talk about your navy life. You do not like to talk of it. You never illustrate your point with bogus stories. It is not necessary for you to lie to be amusing and witty."
  • "You like to have your intimate friends approve of and love you for what you are. This desire to be loved does not amount to a psychosis."
  • "Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler."[SUP][15][/SUP]
Hubbard also expressed his ambitions for the future:

  • "Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves."
  • "You will make fortunes writing."
  • "You will live to be 200 years old."
  • "You will always look young."
  • "Money will flood in upon you."[SUP][14][/SUP]
Finally, a significant number of the Affirmations relate to Hubbard's "Guardian" – a magical concept that he had learned from Jack Parsons. In 1945, Parsons had written to Aleister Crowley to inform him that Hubbard had become his "magical partner" and described Hubbard's beliefs: "From some of his experiences I deduced that he is in direct touch with some higher intelligence, possibly his Guardian Angel. He describes his Angel as a beautiful winged woman with red hair whom he calls the Empress and who has guided him through his life and saved him many times."[SUP][16][/SUP] Hubbard appears to have continued to believe in his Guardian Angel well after leaving Parsons's circle and wrote in his Affirmations:

  • "Nothing can intervene between you and your Guardian. She cannot be displaced because she is too powerful. She does not control you. She advises you."
  • "The most thrilling thing in your life is your love and consciousness of your Guardian."
  • "She has copper red hair, long braids, a lovely Venusian face, a white gown belted with jade squares. She wears gold slippers."
  • "You can talk with her and audibly hear her voice above all others."
  • "You can do automatic writing whenever you wish. You do not care what comes out on the paper when your Guardian dictates."[SUP][14][/SUP]
The Book

The last part of the document is titled "The Book", which appears to allude to his authorship in mid-1938 of a still-unpublished manuscript called Excalibur (or The One Commandment, as he refers to it in the Affirmations).[SUP][17][/SUP] He wrote that it had "freed you forever from the fears of the material world and gave you material control over people."[SUP][18][/SUP] The document lists Hubbard's personal goals, self-compliments and statements of what he believed (or wanted to believe) were his extraordinary qualities.[SUP][17][/SUP] For instance:

  • "You are radiant like sunlight."
  • "You can read music."
  • "You are a magnificent writer who has thrilled millions."
  • "Ability to drop into a trance state at will."
  • "Lack of necessity of following a pulp pattern."
  • "You did a fine job in the Navy. No one there is now 'out to get you.'"
  • "You are psychic."
  • "You do not masturbate."
  • "You do not know anger. Your patience is infinite."
  • "Snakes are not dangerous to you. There are no snakes in the bottom of your bed."
  • "You believe implicitly in God. You have no doubts of the All Powerful. You believe your Guardian perfectly."[SUP][18][/SUP]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmations_(L._Ron_Hubbard)
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
The Scientological Onion

(Excerpted from the Addendum section of L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?, 2nd and 3rd editions. This is the shortened version that appears in Brainwashing Manual Parallels in Scientology)

Scientology could be described as a "layers of the onion" operation.

The outermost layer of the "Scientological Onion" is not identifiable with Scientology at all, being composed of front groups that conceal their connection to -and control by - the Scientology organization. Front groups might be said to constitute Layer Zero: a place where the tentacles of Scientology can grope incognito.

The first layer of the Scientological Onion is meant to be very visible...

Layer One includes Scientology's pampered clique of celebrities, and various public relations ploys. It reverberates with noble sounding sentiments about creating a better world. Scientology seeks to equate itself, and its founder, with anything broadly viewed as desirable or good. A little further along, this layer would include introductory courses with the stated aim of "knowing oneself" and "being free."

Here exist the potentially beneficial aspects of the many masked Scientology operation. The tragedy of Scientology is that the "positives" are used as "window dressing" and "bait on the hook," when they should have been the core and foundation. Thus the Scientology organization reeks of hypocrisy.

Also, at this much publicized layer, L. Ron Hubbard is presented as an engineer, war hero, nuclear physicist, and the "greatest humanitarian of all time," and the author of "22 best sellers with more to come."

The "first layer" is what Scientology wishes the outside world to know as Scientology. And it is essentially what new converts to the "movement" believe.

It includes most of what is good in the subject: The dream of peace on Earth, the desire to help, practical wisdom, civilized communication, and some potentially beneficial counseling procedures. The word freedom is used a great deal at this layer, and a heart felt desire for greater personal freedom, and freedom for all Mankind, is not unusual to new recruits to Scientology.

(Any inconsistencies or contradictions between the publicly stated aims of the movement, and actual practices or facts, become irrelevant as the individual becomes subject to the Dark Side of Scientology. And the deeper one descends into the "onion" the darker it gets.)

Descending into the "onion" it is necessary to become a Scientologist. This means thinking like a Scientologist. This is the Second Layer where deception eases into "soft" forms of mind-manipulation. Love of Mankind is modified that the awareness that human beings are mere hapless "Wogs"... The desire to help becomes the desire to recruit. The ideal of practical wisdom, based on logic and science, is superseded by the belief in the unfathomable mystery of the "tech." Indeed one is expected to be in a state of awe regarding the "tech," much in the same manner that a peasant woman might regard piece of bone, said to have belonged to a Saint from centuries past.

The publicly promoted "policy" of honesty is modified by an awareness that deception is OK, as long as it serves to achieve the desired Scientological end. And the ideals of civility and democracy become a joke - just something that "panty-waists" and wimps fixate on.

One is slowly being "hatted" as a Scientologist.

(At this point an - unlucky - new Scientologist may be subjected to heavy handed "hard sell" tactics by a sales person or "registrar." Life savings have been lost, inheritances gobbled up, and lines of credit drained, all in a single arduous evening of "hard sell." This is really a premature taste of Layer Four.)

The Third Layer down is composed of never ending, expensive, highly advertised, but confidential "upper levels." These go on and on - and on. Scientology has been selling the promise of "Total Freedom" since before most of its current membership were born. It remains the ever elusive "dangling carrot."

Well known individuals who become involved in Scientology - becoming "Scientology celebrities" - do not go deeper into the Scientological Onion than this.

They are also spared the abuses that "less valuable" beings may suffer at the hands of Scientology sales people, "Sea Org" recruiters, or "ethics" officers...

At the upper fringes of the next layer down is local "Org staff," and at the bottom of Layer Four can be found "Sea Org" personnel. This layer employs more pervasive and cruder forms of "persuasion" or "mind control." Here is the "slave labor" supplying Rehabilitation Project Force, the Pavlovian "5 Card System," and the grim but repressed awareness that one is mainly a "post" and a "stat," (i.e. statistic.)

The Fifth layer down includes intimidation of the mass media, use of lawsuits purely for purposes of harassment, and applications of policies and programs, such as those discovered as a result of the FBI search warrants of July 1977. These materials were made available for public view by Federal court order in 1979 and consist of organized applications of the Fair game Law, and related confidential policies and "tech," designed to illegally gain access to private files, infiltrate, harass, lie about, "sue, trick, lie to, or destroy" anyone perceived as an enemy. At this layer also would be secret bank accounts and financial irregularities.

Other aspects of this layer would include "blackmail," including threats to publicize personal information obtained during "religious confessionals" (auditing sessions); and the inducement of duress of various kinds - including frivolous lawsuits - to obtain promises of "silence," and to obtain "signed retractions" of earlier statements.

Here also can be found the handful of individuals who constitute the "Scientology hierarchy": the board of directors of the Religious Technology Center, and its chairman David Miscavige or "DM."

Layer Number Six appears to be the core of the Onion. It is a very temperamental and secret place.

Here lie the secrets of L. Ron Hubbard: his bad health, bad habits, undistinguished military service, flunked physics and mathematics classes. Here can be found the actual motivations behind, and sources of, Dianetics and Scientology. Here can be found Mary Sue Hubbard, languishing in prison for crimes committed under her husband's direction, while her husband, in hiding, passes the time writing Science Fiction. Here are all the things you shouldn't know about the founder of the "Science of Knowing How to Know."
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
What do you mean from 1947?

I certainty when I read KSW in 1986 believed everything was perfect.
I can only give you limited infos I am in possession of.

1947 is when Hubbard started researching/writing on the subject of Dianetics.

1990 was the time when the last bits backlogged Hubbard materials were compiled.

In 1986 at the Hubbard event anouncing his death, Pat Broeker mentioned they still had to weed out some bad tech and I would guess that may have taken until 1990. I don't recall hearing of any mention of "Perfect".
 

Gib

Crusader
I can only give you limited infos I am in possession of.

1947 is when Hubbard started researching/writing on the subject of Dianetics.

1990 was the time when the last bits backlogged Hubbard materials were compiled.

In 1986 at the Hubbard event anouncing his death, Pat Broeker mentioned they still had to weed out some bad tech and I would guess that may have taken until 1990. I don't recall hearing of any mention of "Perfect".

Unless you can prove it, I doubt it.

From my research, little known data not widely spread is from the Campbell/Heinlein letters in which Campbell tells Heinlein that Hubbard research data is all in his head and he Campbell needs to get Hubbard to write it down. This is 1949 pre dianetics release. This basically says Hubbard never kept research notes. I've made several posts here on ESMB about it.
 

Goodbye

Patron with Honors
Unless you can prove it, I doubt it.

From my research, little known data not widely spread is from the Campbell/Heinlein letters in which Campbell tells Heinlein that Hubbard research data is all in his head and he Campbell needs to get Hubbard to write it down. This is 1949 pre dianetics release. This basically says Hubbard never kept research notes. I've made several posts here on ESMB about it.
I cannot ascertain anything beyond the infos I have posted above. I wasn't there. Nor do I claim to know any more. My understanding is his book Evolution of a Science (maybe it was Original Thesis, I don't remember) was released in 1948 but the work started the year before.

I view of the fact you did some research on it, I'll take your infos under consideration.
 

Gib

Crusader
I cannot ascertain anything beyond the infos I have posted above. I wasn't there. Nor do I claim to know any more. My understanding is his book Evolution of a Science (maybe it was Original Thesis, I don't remember) was released in 1948 but the work started the year before.

I view of the fact you did some research on it, I'll take your infos under consideration.

evolution of a science was released after Dianetics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics:_The_Evolution_of_a_Science

Original Thesis First Edition 1951:

http://www.biblio.com/book/dianetic...feed-details&gclid=CPOT2JSJgNMCFQ9EfgodhuAKWA
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I can only give you limited infos I am in possession of.

1947 is when Hubbard started researching/writing on the subject of Dianetics.

1990 was the time when the last bits backlogged Hubbard materials were compiled.

In 1986 at the Hubbard event anouncing his death, Pat Broeker mentioned they still had to weed out some bad tech and I would guess that may have taken until 1990. I don't recall hearing of any mention of "Perfect".

Pray tell how and when you came into possession of your limited infos.

Not according to El Ron. Throughout the written and audio taped materials, El Ron states repetitively that the "research" began in the 1920's and the "Tech" was first "applied" to others--and Hisself--at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital during the months (1945-46) following the end of WWII.

According to whom? You know this for a fact? For example, the "Hubbard/Heinlein Correspondence" was compiled and published long after 1990.

Pat Broeker (whom I personally knew and interacted with) was not "Source", was subsequently eviscerated by the Cof$, was not "Tech" trained and was "covering the bases" for whatever would come next from the Cabal of CMO Children of the Corn.


I personally knew and interacted with El Ron. I was on the Apollo and Privy to the Genus of the "Archives Project" that the Cof$ has, is and will use to continually come up with something "New" via "Recovered/Discovered 'Lost Tech'" to sell...Per the Original El Ron "Archives Project" Orders.

Goodbye...

Did you personally know and interact with El Ron or Pat Broeker?

Were you on the Apollo?

Obviously--at least to me--you're "hanging your hat" on a rudimentary study/experience with "The Materials" and fallacious (albeit very clever) PR Hype of Scn, coupled with a far less than cursory reading/digesting of the factual (supported by Docs) First Hand Accounts on ESMB from Folks that were everything from "original" (LRH Trained) Class XII , FEBC & DSEC (Apollo), SHSBC & OEC (St. Hill) to Public OT VIII's (various iterations), Mission Holders, "Old Timers" ('50's-'60's) to SO/Staff (Apollo, Int, AOSH, Org, Mission, etc) and thousands of practicing--from 4 days to 4+ decades--Scns.

Face:)
 
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WildKat

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow, I was afraid this valuable thread was being "slimed" and doomed to die, but the reinforcement soldiers, who "don't fraid of nothin'" have arrived and it is alive and well!

Carry on!

:thumbsup:
:clap:
 

DagwoodGum

Squirreling Dervish
Incorrect assessment, a fallacy. And you wonder why I don't swallow every story posted here hook, line and a sinker.

I'm not "cemented" in anything, purely your own false assumption, alteration of fact. It's my choice to persue SCN based on the benefits I have obtained from it, and continue to obtain. Wanna try outright invalidation or direct attack of person I spoke earlier of? That's usually the next step that comes after wrong indications have failed.

Another doozie is your position that people are not actually helped, they only 'believe' they've been helped. Entirely your own fabricated nonsense.

Same with this bogus 'Belief" theory of yours. It's entirely your own "Belief" that I believe in anything. Don't worry if the hypocrisy of it evades you.


Some stories I do not believe are accurate -- a far cry of your misrepresention of "Liars". You can't even get get this right. And you wonder why I might doubt your story? Do they come any blinder than this?


No. I don't index any when I come across them. I just ignore the story and move on. I only need to know for myself. I don't read them often, I did years ago. Just recently I read Feral's & Scooter's story and they are bona-fide.


Not the writing style. That's not what I said in my post above. You are altering what I said. Standard data eval by the usual society norms.

Aren't you Bookem Danno too? Or are you Bookem Danno 2?
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Most certainly such a possibility exists. But what I'm talking about are cold-out trolling attacking on the person directly entirely for the purpose for smashing him down because he still practices SCN out here. This board is littered with such attacks. I haven't been here in a while, but it's most certainly true of the past.

I'm not talking about what people agree or disagree with, that's the heart and soul of discussion itself.


I didn't ask you what you thought nor do I care what you think of them. I simply stated my postion on the matter.

Nor do I buy into your narrative that all their stories are true. This I see this yet another statement of possible exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective, as an example.

Furthermore, "documentation" does not necessarily imply the story is free of holes -- in most cases used to merely "convince".

Because scientology avoids negativity, especially if it is negativity about scientology, to prevent the place of the case from backsliding, might it be a possibility that, once a person leaves cos and begins practicing outside the constraints of the cos, the person running into the different levels of negativity out here in the real world might exaggerate and have altered perspectives about those negative ideas? The person could very easily come to believe those negative ideas as falsehoods because of all the misinformation they accumulated while in cos's scientology.

It is possible that a person could develop such misleading ideas that much of the information that has been brought to light about scientology would seem impossible to be anywhere close to true. For example watch some of Leah Remini's interviews. She has spoken about how she was lead to believe so many lies that were so far from the truth that ex-scientologists have exposed.
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, that most certainly COULD be true. Most certainly it's not true of EVERY instance.

I'm not a fan of the A=A formula, certainly never a justification for rape unless of course you are a Muslim and your religious texts demand/permit you rape. Currently should you oppose or object to this mid-east sect which also endorses pedophilia you would be labeled a racist and a bigot -- that's the new politically-correct world.

No. That is absolutely wrong. The label would only come from the ones that have accepted that type of behavior as their mindset. The act is always wrong and only a deluded person would believe it permissible. That is the commonality between the people that use religion as an excuse for their acceptance of wrong behavior and then attempt to make others wrong for pointing it out.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Because scientology avoids negativity, especially if it is negativity about scientology, to prevent the place of the case from backsliding, might it be a possibility that, once a person leaves cos and begins practicing outside the constraints of the cos, the person running into the different levels of negativity out here in the real world might exaggerate and have altered perspectives about those negative ideas? The person could very easily come to believe those negative ideas as falsehoods because of all the misinformation they accumulated while in cos's scientology.

It is possible that a person could develop such misleading ideas that much of the information that has been brought to light about scientology would seem impossible to be anywhere close to true. For example watch some of Leah Remini's interviews. She has spoken about how she was lead to believe so many lies that were so far from the truth that ex-scientologists have exposed.

No. That is absolutely wrong. The label would only come from the ones that have accepted that type of behavior as their mindset. The act is always wrong and only a deluded person would believe it permissible. That is the commonality between the people that use religion as an excuse for their acceptance of wrong behavior and then attempt to make others wrong for pointing it out.

Bold mine.

That's so accurate and insightful, George Layton. :thumbsup: Nobody has ever brought this up before, either. Since Scientologists are trained to avoid negativity and blind themselves to acts of cruelty within the church with built-in justifications about it being ''the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" and other misleaders, their moral compasses are completely screwed up and it would probably seem quite shocking to discover how ruthless those acts of Scientology doctrine actually are, as well as other vicious behavior that they rationalized as acceptable as Scientologists. Thanks for this.

:goodposting:
 

George Layton

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yes, the hypocracy runs deep.

Based on that line of reasoning I guess I could safely assume your CO$-exit story consists of accusing the CO$ of those things you have done yourself. So much for victimhood.


Whatever you consider "Inflamatory" also happens to be true.

Yet someone who practices SCN is freely denigrated and attacked around here? That's not something that would come to your attention would it? Would ruin the one-way street narrative.

A post above even stated J & D'd for practicing SCN in Independent Scientology.

Not insensitive? But you don't see that?


See there is where you make your truth out of your expectations, it is not denigration and attack unless your using the scientology system of belief. It is a wake up call. People continue to have concern for others but the concern is based on the truth they have come to realize once they quit looking at things with views that hubbard provided.
 
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