Back to the start. . . Remember that? ? ?

[whatjusthappened]

I'm fairly new here. I hope ive posted this in the right place. it's slightly different being on the otherside of the posts. . . (Writer rather than reader. or as you call it , "LURKER")

while I still have many connections to Scientology and scientologists, I consider myself "out". Though having friends and family still "in" make it damn near impossible to extricate myself completely.

And what if you run a business whose majority of customers are scientologists.

I can't see a way out. not yet. . .

but i have been thinking long and hard about the early days. . how i got involved. and wondering how so many years went by so fast. what possessed me? ? The common goal of the people surrounding me? the "instant" friendships?

going back a few years now - i remember reading dianetics for the first time.
i did find it "entertaining". i dont think i was convinced the first time through that all those wonderful things were possible.

but later on i was introduced to the Comm Course. That supposedly beheld gifts of communication i only dreamed of. . . now this got me interested. forget dianetics. this was real life stuff.

being slightly introverted and quiet, this was a dream come true. and the first of many courses at the local org. I had wins on the Comm Course.
I had fun doing it. although odd at times, i pushed those thoughts aside, hoping to better myself.

i still feel now that the Comm Course was my forbidden fruit. it got me. the hook was set with bait. and i happily ate it.

i wonder now,whether there is hypnosis involved on this course. . .?

maybe i actually had wins on this course. an addictive feeling which i'd lust after for years to come.. . .

Have you considered this yourself? ? i mean the comm course was pushed pretty heavily. do you think its rigged to hypnotise or help? or both?

i'm just trying to understand my thought processes from back then.

any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Rudabaga]

Welcome. I was never in but I have heard others say the same thing, that the Comm course was the thing that drew them. Interestingly, some even still tout it as one of the best things they ever did, I believe Tory Magoo is one of those. But I will be interested to hear people's thoughts on this.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I think it was beneficial to someone quiet and slightly introverted as I would imagine so many of us were at that time in our lives, being young. I think life and age would have cured a lot of what we thought was ailing us but the comm course gave you instant gratification and new "ability." In hindsight, although I appreciate some of what it did for me....increased my ability to confront and not involve my personal feelings in preventing me from achieving a goal or doing a project or talking with someone, I also see that the "turning off" of natural instincts and feelings, otherwise known as "case" (the catch-all word for anything not Tone 40 Intention to Clear the Planet) was, indeed, a detriment. It turned me into someone pushy and "know-best" (to quote a term) person who was able to steam-roll over things (although employing the utmost diplomacy - sometimes) and didn't allow for natural growth and maturity. I put up with so much crap in scn because I had learned to "confront" and could do so. But why? Really? Had I not been so indoctrinated, I would have skipped out at the first red flag that this was a nut-job organization! I would have skipped out when I was extremely embarrassed by it's activities, not excused them because I could "confront" the foibles of some members. Once you start peeling the onion there is virtually no end to the peeling. Until you get to basic-basic....which for many was the comm course. Once you "got" the comm course, you were deemed nearly a holy person and now worth of being asked to join staff which was presented as such a privilege and honor. That was the beginning of the short-lived love-bombing. Once securely "in" by joining staff or investing all your worldly wealth you then became the target for more extorted time and/or money.
Sorry, I rant here. And I've only had one cup of coffee as yet....

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Early similar!

Wow! Your opening post is so strangely familar!

I haven't figured it out...not by a long shot - but it happened to me too.

EP

 

[Lurker5]

I'll bet

I'll bet everyone who gets out, thinks back and wonders, what 'got' me? And then they find 'it', the place where they flipped. For an extremely shy person, I can see how it would be the comm course. It gave you a mask - to wear and hide behind omg You felt protected and safe, and at cause, in scn. You finally knew what it was to be extroverted.

Extroverts have all the fun (not!).

Now you realize, there are other, less expensive and less harmful ways of getting extroverted . . . . on your own. You just did it with some posts here.

Take your time, go over it, ponder it.
. . . . . .

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

Welcome Dude!

I'm only a few weeks ahead of you - hope you have a look at my few posts - I'm working through a lot of the same situations you are.

I've realized that there is A LOT to find out and you can get a lot of it on-line. May I suggest the book "Bare Faced Messiah" by Russell Miller? It's on-line, but I got a hard copy and am almost done. Having the notes, bibliography and index in writing is handy. It is SHOCKING to discover the full truth of LRH and his intentions.

Stay with it - to paraphrase that crazy old man - It took you 10-20-30 years to get into this mess - a few weeks/months on-line will get you out!

All the best.

 

[GreyWolf]

The real trick of the TR's is that they, in a step by gradient step, teach you to ignore anything that might be considered "case", and just communicate what is from "source". Yeah. In a way it is hypnosis. And it is drilled into you on purpose. Welcome to the board. Happy to have you here.

 

[FoTi]

I've looked at this too. What I see is that the TR0 Bullbait (where a lot of crap is thrown at one to supposedly flatten one's buttons) sets one up to put up with whatever is thrown at them from Scientology, so that later on when one reacts naturally to what is being said or done to them, the come back from a staff member or other Scientologist is "flunk" for out TRs.

In Scientology, anything in opposition to Scientology is considered case or bank, so when one has a natural response to something that is not in agreement with Scientology, one is considered "banky" and one gets the idea that something is wrong with them because they aren't in agreement with what Scientology wants from them.

I did get wins from doing the TRs, but I think the actual purpose of the TRs (Training Routines) in Scientology is to run control on a person and just the first step to getting them to agree to what will come next in Scientology. If they stick around after the Comm Course, then the next step in training was (I don't know if it still is) training on the CCHs...running more control...teaching the person to control others and then being on the receiving end of being controlled by others to set a person up to control others in the group and in his/her life and to be more willing to be controlled by others in the group. I think this is the way that LRH worked his way into controlling a large group of people, by training them to control each other into his way of thinking. And he enforced this by threatening to take away the honey (the winning part of Scientology in the training or auditing where people do have some wins and that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow called Full OT and Total Freedom), if people didn't agree to do what he said. And rather than lose what people thought could be gained in Scientology, they conformed to LRH's wishes. And built into LRH's tech was this insideous control factor. Then, sometimes, when he had a person sufficiently under his control that they would be willing to put up with anything dished out by him, or he had them trapped in a situation where they couldn't get away from him, he added in the punishment factor to add to more control of the individual and to get them to further agree to obey him, without question.

There were wins for people as they continued their path in Scientology....yes, there was always the honey, but the hidden factor that people didn't notice was the control factor and the further that one goes in Scientology, the more their life is under the control of the Church of Scientology, and the more of their own personality, money, and control of their own lives they give up, and if it was done well enough and thoroughly enough, they really never saw it and they just continued on being robots for the CoS, or as some call them.....Ronbots for life. Unfortunately some are still stuck in this mind trap and either can't see it or can't figure out how to get out of it safely.

It's hard to wake up to this factor if one has been involved in Scientology for very long because it kind of becomes a part of one's thinking that is never looked at....and it starts with the TRs (Training Routines) in the Communication Course.

LRH said to "Keep your eye on the mountain" - meaning the goal of going OT or Clearing the Planet or whatever one's goal was in Scientology, so that one doesn't pay attention to the other stuff going on that Scientology or LRH is running on them....he wouldn't want anyone to notice that. It's an extremely covert operation where people think they are going to win in life, but actually they are being taken down a path of losing themselves to the CoS eventually.

My opinion is that LRH was extremely evil to use something that can benefit people while adding in his own element of controlling others so that he could use others to be his slaves, whether directly waiting on him or carrying out his orders or helping him to strip others of everything they had and giving it to "hisself".....kind of like a cancer that remains hidden until one's life is practically snuffed out.



DM has just taken advantage of what LRH already set up for him, while adding in his own brand of evil to the mix. DM didn't start it.....he has only added to the miserable side of Scientology. ......I wonder if DM stands for Dark Master?

 

[Reasonable]

I'm fairly new here. I hope ive posted this in the right place. it's slightly different being on the otherside of the posts. . . (Writer rather than reader. or as you call it , "LURKER")

while I still have many connections to Scientology and scientologists, I consider myself "out". Though having friends and family still "in" make it damn near impossible to extricate myself completely.

And what if you run a business whose majority of customers are scientologists.

I can't see a way out. not yet. . .

but i have been thinking long and hard about the early days. . how i got involved. and wondering how so many years went by so fast. what possessed me? ? The common goal of the people surrounding me? the "instant" friendships?

going back a few years now - i remember reading dianetics for the first time.
i did find it "entertaining". i dont think i was convinced the first time through that all those wonderful things were possible.

but later on i was introduced to the Comm Course. That supposedly beheld gifts of communication i only dreamed of. . . now this got me interested. forget dianetics. this was real life stuff.

being slightly introverted and quiet, this was a dream come true. and the first of many courses at the local org. I had wins on the Comm Course.
I had fun doing it. although odd at times, i pushed those thoughts aside, hoping to better myself.

i still feel now that the Comm Course was my forbidden fruit. it got me. the hook was set with bait. and i happily ate it.

i wonder now,whether there is hypnosis involved on this course. . .?

maybe i actually had wins on this course. an addictive feeling which i'd lust after for years to come.. . .

Have you considered this yourself? ? i mean the comm course was pushed pretty heavily. do you think its rigged to hypnotise or help? or both?

i'm just trying to understand my thought processes from back then.

any thoughts or suggestions?

I think there is some real and good stuff in some of scientology. Including the comm course. And the TRs may be hypnotic and it may be intentional.....
But there maybe benefits from hypnosis.

The problem lies in the value. The comm course for $100 is a good value. Going "clear" at the price of one billion years of your life as a slave is not a good value.

Or just going clear for $100,000 may not be a good value. But it is a good value if it stopped you from having suicidal thought all the time.

Scientology is a very bad value if you know that leaving will have you lose all your friends and your job.

 

[FinallyMe]

I just love your nick! Boy, our initial experiences were VERY much alike - including the "instant friendships" which were very valuable to me at the time! I also appreciated the tools given me via the Comm Course, since I was VERY introverted. I'm delighted that I got out so many years ago, and therefore did not suffer the betrayals, crimes and indignities that so many people have - and I'm glad you're out, to the extent that you can be. I hope you can work it all out easily!

 

[Smilla]

Welcome

 

[blownstaffmember]

Hi What....

It's not all bad. There are plenty of lower level activities that really do bring you uptone and do give you tools for better facing life. The only problem is that there's plenty of chaff with that wheat, and the farther you go, the more and more chaff and the less and less wheat. The big problem is that you get coerced into buying the whole package - and that what leads you into the trap. Most start thinking they can overlook the miserable details and focus on good - That's when you step on the trap's trigger. The devil really IS in the details.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Welcome aboard!

I think it was beneficial to someone quiet and slightly introverted as I would imagine so many of us were at that time in our lives, being young. I think life and age would have cured a lot of what we thought was ailing us but the comm course gave you instant gratification and new "ability." In hindsight, although I appreciate some of what it did for me....increased my ability to confront and not involve my personal feelings in preventing me from achieving a goal or doing a project or talking with someone, I also see that the "turning off" of natural instincts and feelings, otherwise known as "case" (the catch-all word for anything not Tone 40 Intention to Clear the Planet) was, indeed, a detriment. It turned me into someone pushy and "know-best" (to quote a term) person who was able to steam-roll over things (although employing the utmost diplomacy - sometimes) and didn't allow for natural growth and maturity. I put up with so much crap in scn because I had learned to "confront" and could do so. But why? Really? Had I not been so indoctrinated, I would have skipped out at the first red flag that this was a nut-job organization! I would have skipped out when I was extremely embarrassed by it's activities, not excused them because I could "confront" the foibles of some members. Once you start peeling the onion there is virtually no end to the peeling. Until you get to basic-basic....which for many was the comm course. Once you "got" the comm course, you were deemed nearly a holy person and now worth of being asked to join staff which was presented as such a privilege and honor. That was the beginning of the short-lived love-bombing. Once securely "in" by joining staff or investing all your worldly wealth you then became the target for more extorted time and/or money.
Sorry, I rant here. And I've only had one cup of coffee as yet....

Keep ranting Uncle Artie ...you're making a LOT of sense!

Welcome newbie "Whattie", and yes, there are trance state inducing practices involved in doing TRs, if not the classical aware kind of hypnotism, etc. Much has been written about this on the Internet.

Very glad to have you here!

Some thoughts about getting more freedom from the cult... slowly but surely, replace all your employees with newly hired wogs...One every six to eight months...feel out and retain any employees who may be disaffected and ready to leave Scientology...or create a secondary tier of workers who are not involved in the day to day operations and "stash" cultists there...think about "retiring" into another line of work, one having no ties or dependancies on Scientology...develop a "physical health problem" that means you must lower your stress, and change your lifestyle re: your business. Use this as the reasonable truth to offload the indoctrinated, and distance yourself from the Org...if you haven't already, stop donating to Scientology programs. Never, ever pay a bogus "freeloader bill" (or let anyone else pay one). It is a financial fraud Scientology runs on those wishing to leave to intimidate them and convince them to stay, is not legally enforcable.

If you have children in the SO, get them out NOW by any means necessary!

If you cut all ties and ask for a refund...how many tens of thousands will you have coming to you? You could think of that as your retirement fund...

 

[Mark A. Baker]

i still feel now that the Comm Course was my forbidden fruit. it got me. the hook was set with bait. and i happily ate it.

i wonder now,whether there is hypnosis involved on this course. . .?

maybe i actually had wins on this course. an addictive feeling which i'd lust after for years to come.. . .

No. If you had wins on the Comm Course you had wins on the Comm Course. Anyone telling you otherwise is trying to "sell" you something.

Scientology is not all bad. Many of us have had great fun & huge benefits from pursuing the subject. Some of us still do. The wins you had are real, just as the abuses that some experienced are also. The bad experiences do not negate the positive ones. Neither does the reality of the wins imply that EVERYTHING about either Hubbard, or the Co$, or even all aspects of the "tech" was good & true either. They weren't.

Accept the fun & benefits you received from your involvement as just that, your own experience. Others have had different experiences. These different experiences color the way we look back at our individual involvements with the church. Some like you & I have had largely "positive" experiences from our contact with the church. Others have had wholly "negative" ones. Some are "in the middle". All are right to acknowledge their experiences as their own and make new paths for themselves.


Best,
Mark A. Baker

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Make new paths is the key. COS as it has been is doomed to failure.