Degrees of "Ex"

[Free to shine]

I have just spent some time IRL with another ex Scn and had the most amazing and healing conversations. We were coming from different experiences - one staff and one public. Seeing the web of indoctrination and hypnostism we both experienced, from those different perspectives has been fantastic and liberating.

Today when I log onto ESMB it seems to me that every other thread is about or has references to the "tech". Even conversations about how to get family out, which in the past would have contained sensible advice, instead includes what "tech" should be used.

What is happening here? Are we EXES or not? Why is there a sudden influx of "tech" (or admin) related threads or posts on which tech is applicable ? (And pointless idiot videos that have nothing to do with ESMB).

I am over it, done. I have unravelled enough for my own sanity and my interest here is to help those emerging from the torture. And yes, there has been torture and it still continues to this day.

I am really fed up with Hubbard apologists. Yes, I do understand we all have a right to different viewpoints and I don't have to read the threads in the Scientology tech related categories, and mostly don't read what I consider dribble. I do get really annoyed when they intrude on threads that are not on that subject, such a someone trying to find a friend!

Perhaps this is a stage exes go through? Anger at seeing the attitude? When does one finally walk away from everything Scientology? To me attaining that ability to "let go" is what we should aim for, and live a life that is not dictated by the words of one man who wove a web we got tangled in.

There are thousands of people who read this board and don't post. How many are put off stepping out of the dark by the "tech is all if you use it right and not this bit blah blah" being the main subjects of conversation?

I am not posting this to create arguments but as a genuine question as to whether I am alone in this view. It feels a bit that way at the moment. /rant

 

[duddins]

I am not coming from exactly the same place FTS, but I agree that the shift in concentration from discussion of liberation from Scientology concerns me.

I am overjoyed to be free from feeling I had to use LRH's meglomaniacal "tech" to get through a day of life.

THAT was the so called church's indocrination. That is what they wanted me to feel. That I would not make it in life without the F--cking tech.

Well I have made it in life. I have a BA in Science and a Masters. I did not use Scientology to study science and guess what? I get it. I understand it and I didnt even to clay demo nucleo-synthesis!

Thanks for bringing this up FTS.

I for one am here to heal from the use of the tech, not to be reminded of how to use it.

Love,
Bernadette

I have just spent some time IRL with another ex Scn and had the most amazing and healing conversations. We were coming from different experiences - one staff and one public. Seeing the web of indoctrination and hypnostism we both experienced, from those different perspectives has been fantastic and liberating.

Today when I log onto ESMB it seems to me that every other thread is about or has references to the "tech". Even conversations about how to get family out, which in the past would have contained sensible advice, instead includes what "tech" should be used.

What is happening here? Are we EXES or not? Why is there a sudden influx of "tech" (or admin) related threads or posts on which tech is applicable ? (And pointless idiot videos that have nothing to do with ESMB).

I am over it, done. I have unravelled enough for my own sanity and my interest here is to help those emerging from the torture. And yes, there has been torture and it still continues to this day.

I am really fed up with Hubbard apologists. Yes, I do understand we all have a right to different viewpoints and I don't have to read the threads in the Scientology tech related categories, and mostly don't read what I consider dribble. I do get really annoyed when they intrude on threads that are not on that subject, such a someone trying to find a friend!

Perhaps this is a stage exes go through? Anger at seeing the attitude? When does one finally walk away from everything Scientology? To me attaining that ability to "let go" is what we should aim for, and live a life that is not dictated by the words of one man who wove a web we got tangled in.

There are thousands of people who read this board and don't post. How many are put off stepping out of the dark by the "tech is all if you use it right and not this bit blah blah" being the main subjects of conversation?

I am not posting this to create arguments but as a genuine question as to whether I am alone in this view. It feels a bit that way at the moment. /rant

 

[seeking4know]

I have just spent some time IRL with another ex Scn and had the most amazing and healing conversations. We were coming from different experiences - one staff and one public. Seeing the web of indoctrination and hypnostism we both experienced, from those different perspectives has been fantastic and liberating.

Today when I log onto ESMB it seems to me that every other thread is about or has references to the "tech". Even conversations about how to get family out, which in the past would have contained sensible advice, instead includes what "tech" should be used.

What is happening here? Are we EXES or not? Why is there a sudden influx of "tech" (or admin) related threads or posts on which tech is applicable ? (And pointless idiot videos that have nothing to do with ESMB).

I am over it, done. I have unravelled enough for my own sanity and my interest here is to help those emerging from the torture. And yes, there has been torture and it still continues to this day.

I am really fed up with Hubbard apologists. Yes, I do understand we all have a right to different viewpoints and I don't have to read the threads in the Scientology tech related categories, and mostly don't read what I consider dribble. I do get really annoyed when they intrude on threads that are not on that subject, such a someone trying to find a friend!

Perhaps this is a stage exes go through? Anger at seeing the attitude? When does one finally walk away from everything Scientology? To me attaining that ability to "let go" is what we should aim for, and live a life that is not dictated by the words of one man who wove a web we got tangled in.

There are thousands of people who read this board and don't post. How many are put off stepping out of the dark by the "tech is all if you use it right and not this bit blah blah" being the main subjects of conversation?

I am not posting this to create arguments but as a genuine question as to whether I am alone in this view. It feels a bit that way at the moment. /rant

Just do a little "reach and withdraw"

yull be fine

MR

 

[duddins]

Just do a little "reach and withdraw"

yull be fine

MR

I hope that was meant to be a joke.....and if it was.....not so sure how funny.

 

[Free to shine]

Just do a little "reach and withdraw"

yull be fine

MR

To respond in kind - are you evaluating for me? Flunk.

 

[Free to shine]

I am not coming from exactly the same place FTS, but I agree that the shift in concentration from discussion of liberation from Scientology concerns me.

I am overjoyed to be free from feeling I had to use LRH's meglomaniacal "tech" to get through a day of life.

THAT was the so called church's indocrination. That is what they wanted me to feel. That I would not make it in life without the F--cking tech.

Well I have made it in life. I have a BA in Science and a Masters. I did not use Scientology to study science and guess what? I get it. I understand it and I didnt even to clay demo nucleo-synthesis!

Thanks for bringing this up FTS.

I for one am here to heal from the use of the tech, not to be reminded of how to use it.

Love,
Bernadette

Thankyou Bernadette!! A gal after my own heart.
I also have a successful life, and am free to think for myself.

 

[duddins]

Thankyou Bernadette!! A gal after my own heart.
I also have a successful life, and am free to think for myself.

YAHOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Since I, obviously am one of the causes of your angst. I can go away.

Before I do, i'd like you to know I am not a Hubbard apologist in any way.

In this lifetime, before I ___ever__ even heard of Scientology, I met a girl at a rock concert in San Jose. We looked into one another's eyes without speaking for minutes. We never talked about it, but we sat silently for hours many days a week looking at each other. We did his for years. Her mother must have thought we were crazy. Our spaces got huge. Our energy was super. Nobody said"flunk, you blinked"

We threw (still do) the "i Ching" coins, read Alan Watts, D.T. Suzuki, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones, Ayn Rand, Sarte, etc. Scientology - the tech- not the cult, was a natural step forward. My wife, before she was my wife (she was an Vlll), clued me in to all the abuses and bullshit of LRH, the SO, etc. The gains were still worth the price of admission. Before I went down to LA, to go Clear, i was WARNED to watch out for the "Sea Org Cognition." That's where you realize you should join the Sea Org because it's the greatest good for the greatest number. I had the Sea Org cognition. i just told myself fo several days that I was crazy, and sure enough, it passed and I didn't have it again.

1968, In my circle of friends, about twenty of us walked into the Santa Clara center, and were Clear and mostly auditors by 1971. Around 1974, I started a center which is now an org (Los Gatos). In 1976, I walked. I got a refund of advance payments (about) $20-30K. from AO and Flag, and others quietly left too. There was no SP declare. There wasn't much fuss.

My friends, who were my friends in 1968 are still my friends. We all got together in Oct of last year. Two or three of them are still in Scientology (the cult). All of the rest of us left decades ago. there was no animosity amongst us.

Does that mean my children don't know what an ARC X is? NO. Emphatically, no. It means that some cult doesn't tell them how to run their life. My wife and I have audited our kids when they've needed _AND WANTED_ it all their lives. The sessions we give are anything from touch and contact assists to 2 way comm to prepchecks and incident running. We don't do C/Sing, admin especially, exams, anything formal. We just get the job done.

My friend, who sat and looked at me forty years ago is still one of my best friends. We talk, e mail, see each other frequently. Our friendship is as new today as it was forty years ago. She's been through several husbands, audited at CC and a bit at Flag, and walked away too. There were no consequences.

There was a movie made about 20 years ago about a moron who went off gung ho to the Vietnam war and got crippled and became a moron who was against the war. I still have a jacket from that film. In terms of tech, it reminded me of term and opp term. Just like prostitute and nun, cop and robber.

We can be "scientologist" and "anti scientologist" or ex scientologist.

Wouldn't it be saner to take a step back and see the good that was there, the evil, the gray, the whole spectrum?

even if for you there is only one iota of good, why not choose to keep that, not throw it all away?

Last April, it was raining in LA. I took my dog to the La Brea Tar Pits. It reminded me of meeting an old girl friend there some decades ago, in the rain with an earlier dog. She had been my girl friend several times this life. We've never made it work. I still love her immensely. The combination of the rain, the Tar Pits, the dog - the memories- led me to crying for hours.

It is a good thing to go through the grief and anger of lost love, lost life-in-a -cult, whatever. When I was done with crying, I still loved my old girl friend. I eventually wrote her, and she still loves me, just doesn't want to see me.

Perhaps, when you get over your anger at Scientology (the generality), you'll find parts to like. But you won't want to go back to the whole. Because it sucks. It sucks big time.

 

[seeking4know]

I hope that was meant to be a joke.....and if it was.....not so sure how funny.

course twas a joke!!!

Jus wanted to lighten it up...

I think it is hard to let go of somethings you had with you for so long...
Like a family member, even if you dont like him.

I personally love it... then again we all different people.

I am glad everyone is doing well tho.

MR

 

[duddins]

course twas a joke!!!

Jus wanted to lighten it up...

I think it is hard to let go of somethings you had with you for so long...
Like a family member, even if you dont like him.

I personally love it... then again we all different people.

I am glad everyone is doing well tho.

MR

When I left the Sea Org in 1985, I had my entire life pulled out from under me. My entire life. My belongings, my fiance', my job, my lifestyle, my faith, my spirituality, all of it was ripped away from me.

I had nothing. I wandered lost. I could not think for myself without Scientologese filling my brain. What would Ron have me do. I was so heavily indocrinated with group think that I could not function.

Squirrels took me in. People that used the tech, outside of Scientology.
I had always feared squirrelling because of my indocrination. So, although the squirrels took me in, I would not discuss tech with them. They left me alone to heal.

They were some very influencial squirrels. OSA committed such incredible acts of violence against them that they were hospitalized and in intensive care.

I recieved a phone call telling me that I would not make it to the hospital if I did not leave town within 24 hours.

I did not want to have anything to do with tech squirrel or otherwise.

I was drawn to the ESMB 23 years later because it was a place where I could share my story and read the stories of others.

When I arrived here, members did not try to handle me with LRH tech.

I did not want to be handled by LRH tech.

If they had tried to handle me with LRH tech, I would have been out in a minute. I was greeted with human kindness. Not ideas on how to use tech to feel better.

What I am saying, is that the board should be a place where our positions on the idea of tech are respected.

Seek4know, I personally feel that your response to FTS did not respect her desire to not be innondated with LRH tech. You may have thought you were joking, but IMO it was in bad taste.

I hope I have communicated well, that I am not hostile. I simply believe that the world outside of LRH tech is a fine one with many solutions.

Sincerely,
Duddins

 

[Free to shine]

I hope I have communicated well, that I am not hostile. I simply believe that the world outside of LRH tech is a fine one with many solutions.

Sincerely,
Duddins

You are an inspiration to me and have been since your first post.

 

[duddins]

You are an inspiration to me and have been since your first post.

You, dear FTS have encouraged me to bask in my own light and in noone else's shadow. You are an inspiration to many!

Love,
Duddins

 

[Free to shine]

Perhaps, when you get over your anger at Scientology (the generality), you'll find parts to like. But you won't want to go back to the whole. Because it sucks. It sucks big time.

Thankyou for your post, I appreciate you taking the time. What I posted is not aimed at anyone in particular, nor is it a statement of anger at Scientology, believe it or not. Of course I don't want you to go. I know we all have different ways of handling our "ex-ness", and for me it does not include the "technology", which I have found in better forms elsewhere.

I was involved for around 35 years and have been out a long time. I don't regret my past, and I am not an angry raging critic. I simply don't want to see threads buried in solutions from L.Ron Hubbard, rather than common sense, care and compassion, which are far more effective.

 

[lionheart]

Thankyou for your post, I appreciate you taking the time. What I posted is not aimed at anyone in particular, nor is it a statement of anger at Scientology, believe it or not. Of course I don't want you to go. I know we all have different ways of handling our "ex-ness", and for me it does not include the "technology", which I have found in better forms elsewhere.

I was involved for around 35 years and have been out a long time. I don't regret my past, and I am not an angry raging critic. I simply don't want to see threads buried in solutions from L.Ron Hubbard, rather than common sense, care and compassion, which are far more effective.

Good thread, FTS!

I've been out since 82 and dropped the Hubbard tech and Hubbard-isms a long time ago.

It does surprise me when I encounter, on here, those who haven't done so. Until I joined ESMB a year ago I hadn't come across anyone who still used Hubbard tech. For me and those exes I knew, the idea since 1982 was to drop all the Hubbard indoctrination, including his "tech". So it is peculiar for me to come across those who haven't.

It annoys me a little when these same people try to accuse Hubbard critics of "anger", "hate", "bitterness" etc. But it has become obvious to me that discussing criticism of Hubbard tech with those who still use it is a pointless activity.

I think what FTS is trying to say, she'll correct me if I'm wrong, is that promoting LRH tech on here is not necessarily helpful to those leaving the cult as one should de-program ourselves from all aspects of the cult including the tech.

Others, presumably believe that letting leavers know they can get Hubbard tech outside the "Church" is a help to them.

I don't think there is a definitive "right" opinion of this. It is certainly true that when leaving one still clings to the tech or parts of it like a person shipwreaked clings to some debris.

I did that for maybe the best part of ten years. Letting go of Hubbard's stable data that he gave us is is a slow process, in my experience.

I think the differing opinions that the tech or parts of it are good as compared to the opinion that the tech was largely an evaluated implant are not reconcilable by discussion. Life experience sorts it out for each individual, hopefully! :wink2:

So long as we are all recovering from the cult, it is relatively unimportant how much or little we still support Hubbard. It is a shame we don't seem all that good at voicing opposing opinions without descending into entrenched positions. But maybe that is part of the process too! The more entrenched we become, the greater the opportunity to see that and let the entrenchment go. Hubbard wanted us to be entrenched in his imposed point of view about the world and Scn. But none of us have to play that game of his anymore!

My life experience was still clinging to parts of Hubbo's tech for years, and creating a failed business in the process, that personally ruined us financially.

Luckily I was looking at many other methodologies as well and at the lowest point of ruin, this miracle called life looked after me and I found that Hubbard's tech was not needed and that there were better, simpler and more ethical methodologies. Life is now abundant, successful, fun and the gains which I undoubtedly got from Scn have been superceeded and I now see that everything including my involvement in the cult was needed and just as it should have been!

Nevertheless I'll be on the street tomorrow demonstrating against the cult!

 

[Tanstaafl]

I'm Ex-CoS, not Ex-Scn necessarily.

For me, being an Ex is mostly about being free to grant beingness and to communicate with who I will.

I've found that I have as much respect and admiration for those who have no time for the tech (e.g. Mick and Zinj) as those who still wish to pursue it in some form and are, therefore, more like myself.

ESMB has helped me enormously in breaking out of fixed beingnesses.
Fixed beingnesses are ugly.

I don't think it's an issue that tech is discussed here. What's important is that we're supportive of each other, share our experiences, and (of course) have a laugh.

 

[lionheart]

I think the FZ antipate a large number of people leaving the CofS and they are positioning themselves to recruit the leavers.

Really it doesn't matter, but it can be strange stuff to read for those of us who have dropped LRH. Life will sort out the leavers and those who do the FZ. Without the KSW ethics tech, the FZ will only hold adherents if they help them.

Hubbard knew he had to hold people with threats, due to poor results. The FZ will live or die by their success in helping.

This is not a criticism of the FZ.

 

[Goldenrod]

Hello there, FTS!

I think the healing process takes as long as it takes and has to cover whatever it takes.

Lots of broken wings out there to be healed.

 

[Sharone Stainforth]

Default Degrees of "Ex"
I have just spent some time IRL with another ex Scn and had the most amazing and healing conversations. We were coming from different experiences - one staff and one public. Seeing the web of indoctrination and hypnostism we both experienced, from those different perspectives has been fantastic and liberating.

Today when I log onto ESMB it seems to me that every other thread is about or has references to the "tech". Even conversations about how to get family out, which in the past would have contained sensible advice, instead includes what "tech" should be used.

What is happening here? Are we EXES or not? Why is there a sudden influx of "tech" (or admin) related threads or posts on which tech is applicable ? (And pointless idiot videos that have nothing to do with ESMB).

I am over it, done. I have unravelled enough for my own sanity and my interest here is to help those emerging from the torture. And yes, there has been torture and it still continues to this day.

I am really fed up with Hubbard apologists. Yes, I do understand we all have a right to different viewpoints and I don't have to read the threads in the Scientology tech related categories, and mostly don't read what I consider dribble. I do get really annoyed when they intrude on threads that are not on that subject, such a someone trying to find a friend!

Perhaps this is a stage exes go through? Anger at seeing the attitude? When does one finally walk away from everything Scientology? To me attaining that ability to "let go" is what we should aim for, and live a life that is not dictated by the words of one man who wove a web we got tangled in.

There are thousands of people who read this board and don't post. How many are put off stepping out of the dark by the "tech is all if you use it right and not this bit blah blah" being the main subjects of conversation?

I am not posting this to create arguments but as a genuine question as to whether I am alone in this view. It feels a bit that way at the moment. /rant


Free to Shine,
You are not alone in this view about the "tech". I couldn't give a damn about the "tech" other than the fact that i think it can and has been harmful to people,even going back to the basics of the childrens' courses which i found scary and not teaching me anything of value.

What i do care about, and i think many people will feel the same whether an Ex Scientologist or a member of the public are the abuses caused by the "church " of Scientology, which started with L. Ron Hubbard and is now with David Miscavige.

I care about what happened to the children on board Hubbards ship,the children put in the chain locker, the children put in the hold, the parents who were too busy "clearing the Planet" to see what their children were going through.I care about the injustices that happened to adults on the Apollo, put in lower conditions, overboarded and living in fear.It matters not that it happened so long ago, it matters that it happened.Period.

I care about all the people that have been victimized by Scientology, that are too numerous to name. People like Arnie, Gerry Armstrong,Hana Eltringham,Jefferson Hawkins,these are just a few off of the top of my head but there are many, many more including my own Father.

I care about the abuse that many children have endured during their time in Scientology, and don't get me started on there is a difference between "the "church" of Scientology and Scientology and or corporations. To me Scientology is Scientology,it always has been and always will be, and like it or not, there has always been abuse of children within the organization.I am not saying all children in Scientology have been abused in one form or another, but far too many have been abused to brush it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't go on. Mental abuse is just as bad as physical abuse, in fact it has far more damaging effects imo.

I care about all of these things,both past and present and because of this i will be protesting tomorrow, even though i will be up all night to night on night shift.

There is much more i want to write about and will eventually, although healed significantly i still have some problems i am trying to deal with privately.This takes time, more time than i realised.

If this post is not subtle enough for Scientologists, then excuse me for caring that people are being abused whilst hiding behind the word "church".

Love and Hugs to you Free to Shine

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

FreetoShine,

I agree with you. I've only been out a little over 2 years. I really, truly don't want anything to do with the tech. I want to heal and grow without it, since I certainly didn't heal and grow WITH it.

I pretty much avoid the threads that talk about the tech. I'll post something as a joke, but I don't use the tech in my life and I try not to use the language. But I didn't use much of the tech while I was in. I didn't see it helping me. Only when the Church "made" me use the tech outside of session did I use it. But you wouldn't see me picking up the ethics book to improve a situation. I just improved it or moved on.

 

[Escalus]

I have just spent some time IRL with another ex Scn and had the most amazing and healing conversations. We were coming from different experiences - one staff and one public. Seeing the web of indoctrination and hypnostism we both experienced, from those different perspectives has been fantastic and liberating.

Today when I log onto ESMB it seems to me that every other thread is about or has references to the "tech". Even conversations about how to get family out, which in the past would have contained sensible advice, instead includes what "tech" should be used.

What is happening here? Are we EXES or not? Why is there a sudden influx of "tech" (or admin) related threads or posts on which tech is applicable ? (And pointless idiot videos that have nothing to do with ESMB).

I am over it, done. I have unravelled enough for my own sanity and my interest here is to help those emerging from the torture. And yes, there has been torture and it still continues to this day.

I am really fed up with Hubbard apologists. Yes, I do understand we all have a right to different viewpoints and I don't have to read the threads in the Scientology tech related categories, and mostly don't read what I consider dribble. I do get really annoyed when they intrude on threads that are not on that subject, such a someone trying to find a friend!

Perhaps this is a stage exes go through? Anger at seeing the attitude? When does one finally walk away from everything Scientology? To me attaining that ability to "let go" is what we should aim for, and live a life that is not dictated by the words of one man who wove a web we got tangled in.

There are thousands of people who read this board and don't post. How many are put off stepping out of the dark by the "tech is all if you use it right and not this bit blah blah" being the main subjects of conversation?

I am not posting this to create arguments but as a genuine question as to whether I am alone in this view. It feels a bit that way at the moment. /rant

(raises hand)
I had to deal with the same reaction when I first came here because I'd long ago came to the conclusion that the whole thing was garbage. I still think the "tech" is garbage but since coming here I've changed a little only insofar as thinking that people who are out from under the "church" but still using the stuff they learned are not the bad guy in the story. Now the last time I said that some perfect asshole who posts here once in a while said I was being self-serving, but I meant it so whoever that was can go fuck themselves.

No one has proven to me yet - because they can't - that this stuff has clinically and scientifically documented evidence behind it of any kind. It remains in the "subjective science" category for me until it does. On this board I have met a few "tech" recidivists who are open and up-beat, and I have also met "tech" recidivists who have somehow managed to retain the trademark Scientological dour-faced skinny-boy hard ass bullshit we were all trained to assume when we were deep in the cult's clutches. Though both versions of recidivists have every right to pursue the lights of their conscience, I find the former more earnest about it while the latter are still living in abject fear that they got this all wrong.

That being said I can also relate it to the current Anonymous phenomenon in that the real basis of the protest isn't the idea of Scientology as much as it is the "church" and its truly fascist (not hyperbole) activities while being covered by a system of rights and laws they have abused and would probably take away if they had the chance. The individual staff & public, one on one, are more victim than anything else. But the hierarchy is truly questionable, at best.

I lose patience with people who tell me that Scientology works, who then turn around and say I shouldn't be a "Hubbard literalist" when i question the "tech". That's willful, ass-covering stupidity at its finest without doubt.

With that I'll say I believe there are degrees of being an 'ex.' I look back from the perspective of someone out a very long time - so it has less to do with my reality than those who were born into it or just got out. It doesn't make my perspective useless - just different.

The longer you're out and the more you find what else has merit for you - worldview-wise and other-wise - the less effect Scientology will have altogether. For me the things of it that are still present in my life were there as a modality before Scientology ever existed anyway.

But the aspects of the 'tech' that seem to lean toward a version of social Darwinism, argue for the infallibility of the "tech", and leave blame on the subject when the "tech" does not actually work - I assure you - are complete and utter crap.