Last Lifers

[OTBT]

I was a past life "Clear".

I went through a very thorough CCRD, with sec checks on my most recent lifetime, and all kinds of prodding and probing.

I uncovered a lot of the basis for my past life clear claim in earlier auditing to the CCRD, including being audited by Ron in Phoenix and elsewhere, and also just hanging out with any body who was any body in the Scientology, pre 1960.

It was "validated" again 10 years later under a whole new set of C/Ses and others while on my OT Preps.

Basically, what my auditing uncovered was that I am part of Scientology Royalty, very good friends with Ron himself, privy to all the inside skinny that not even Sea Org members know, and very very connected to saving mankind on this planet - having arrived here recently - as part of the "advance team".

That's right. No need to bow.

It's all been proven scientifically with only the highest trained and most ethical Scientologists in the entire world.

I'm a past lifer.

I work in eternity.

< sigh >

This ^ is why I hesitate to post on this forum.

 

[Tiger Lily]

That's an amazing story TL! Wow- you're the first I've encountered that has done a thorough follow up on a PL recall. Even though you fell for their BS excuse afterwards, you did the work and knew the facts; really, really great to hear that.

I had a similar experience out at Flag, having envisioned that I was hovering over the area. I set out on foot later to confirm what I 'saw' and nope, no such luck. What I 'saw' was totally different and much more opulent than anything in the environment.. L11, class 12, stably imagining anything I wished to 'see' with OH so very full perception!!! LOL, it's the most expensive LSD on the planet!!!

Thanks KV -- well, that was early on in the scheme of things (right after my Ups and Downs course) -- I wasn't fully indoctrinated yet!! I never did it again lest I "invalidate" myself and interfere with my case gain!

I'm curious -- was there "cognitive dissonance" when the physical universe didn't validate your recalls? How did you come to terms with that at the time? If you were at Flag doing L's then you were probably a true believer at that time . . (?). . .

-TL

 

[Tiger Lily]

I was a past life "Clear".

I went through a very thorough CCRD, with sec checks on my most recent lifetime, and all kinds of prodding and probing.

I uncovered a lot of the basis for my past life clear claim in earlier auditing to the CCRD, including being audited by Ron in Phoenix and elsewhere, and also just hanging out with any body who was any body in the Scientology, pre 1960.

It was "validated" again 10 years later under a whole new set of C/Ses and others while on my OT Preps.

Basically, what my auditing uncovered was that I am part of Scientology Royalty, very good friends with Ron himself, privy to all the inside skinny that not even Sea Org members know, and very very connected to saving mankind on this planet - having arrived here recently - as part of the "advance team".

That's right. No need to bow.

It's all been proven scientifically with only the highest trained and most ethical Scientologists in the entire world.

I'm a past lifer.

I work in eternity.

< sigh >

This ^ is why I hesitate to post on this forum.

You're missing out then OTBT -- that post is hilarious! (in a bitter/ironic/satirical sort of way). It pretty much sums up the mindf--- as far as I'm concerned. . . I can totally relate.

-TL

 

[Operating Wog]

From my experience, it seemed like every other person I met claimed to be a past life Scio. I bet there are more "past lifers" than there are dead scios. I think this was particularly popular in the 70's. I remember being told outright that most of the people who "went clear" in the 70's had simply originated past life clear, given an interview or whatever they did back then before the CCRD, and sent to the bookstore to buy one of those overpriced bracelets.

 

[South of the Border]

Last lifers and Past lifes

Ok. I was not in Scientology in the 1970's. But I did meet ONE person who attested past life OTV. It was 1988-89. He was a 10-12 year old kid. He was my friend. I was a kid too.

His last life folders were found, and he did continue were he left off.

I can attest that from my personal experience knowing him, he seemed bona fide. And his knowledge and caracter was fitting with an educated adult and although he had not done practically any Scientology training this life time, he was knowlegable and competent in the tech. He was also a very, very happy kid, allways having a great time when doing the things kids do.



As for past life recall, I do not have it, although I have a "feeling" of having been around for a LONG time. But that doesn't count for evidence, so I will not say in a court of law that I attest to the reality of past lifes based on personal experience.

But I have met several people in Scientology with very good to perfect recall of past lifes. I will also say that it is not allowed to discuss one's case in the church, an so most of the people do not mention their memories or anything they come up with in session.

By perfect recall I mean, a person who remembers all of his life times just as clearly and vividly as this present life time. Yes, that's right. I have met such a person. We were friends, we had many conversations, he talked about any point in the whole track just as easily as remembering the last party we went to and what we did. I do belive his honesty completely, in the way he carried himself and the experiences we had toghether I came to know him as a person you could trust your life with.


And I have seen so many TV programes where they show cases of peolple who spontaneoully remembered their previous lifes (not through hipnosis or something else) and their memories were confirmed acurately.

Maybe this LRH quote is pertinent here, about how easy it is to find some one who remembers, or to make somebody remember having lived before: (paraphrasing) " the problem is not getting them into past lifes. The problem is getting them out."

(not to promote LRH)

If there is any body out there who has never met some one who remembers past lifes or been exterior or who can see "ghosts" (for real). Then it is just that they are too secluded from the rest of mankind. If you meet enough people (and not even too many) you will find plenty of honest cases.

In the western world we live in, such subjects are taboo, because of christianity being the basis of our "civilized culture" ; and people do not openly discuss such things for fear of being "shut out" from the group.

In eastern countries were such subjects are not taboo, nobody even frowns when someone mentions they had a chat with their dead grandmother's spirit. And they find it fascinating but not wrong or unbelivable when a child knocks at their door and says "I am your mother, I just came to see if you'all were doing allright, I'd been worried for you." (the mother of the family having died a few years back).

 

[Veda]

Ok. I was not in Scientology in the 1970's. But I did meet ONE person who attested past life OTV. It was 1988-89. He was a 10-12 year old kid. He was my friend. I was a kid too.

His last life folders were found, and he did continue were he left off.

-snip-

Sounds like the Church of Scientology is a pretty exciting place to be.

From reading your posts, it appears that you're still a member.

How's your friend doing these days? Is he still a member?

Perhaps you could coax him into posting on ESMB.

 

[clamicide]

One more thought....

I haven't shared stuff that had been verified by pc's I audited and such. I was raised Catholic, and I have the confidentiality thing ingrained in me, so I consider it sacred (and I'm just not ready to share my own stuff in that regard, and don't know that I ever will because I'm not sure what purpose it'd serve). Now, what I'm starting to wonder about...how does the past life Clear stuff reconcile with the OT VIII stuff that says we've been running our BT's cases? Uh...so those who went CLEAR became such DBs that they became BTs????

And, I remember an event where DM was talking about a kid who had recalled being OT V LLT, and had to be convinced to stay in school and grow the body up a bit before he fully 'came back' (accompanied by the PR laughs).....but, he was giving Book 1 sessions to folks! YAY! Seriously...WTF? There is some stuff that creeps me out enough that I think the earlier-life recall might be real. I don't necessarily believe that it might be recall of our own past life, perhaps we contact other realities and learn about others' lives...but the more I look back, the more contradictions I see in what the cult espoused.

 

[South of the Border]

Sounds like the Church of Scientology is a pretty exciting place to be.

From reading your posts, it appears that you're still a member.

How's your friend doing these days? Is he still a member?

Perhaps you could coax him into posting on ESMB.

I have not seen him for many years now.

I have never been officially out.

Douring the time I was full time in, I never disconnected from the rest of the world.

I have allways been in contact with critics and anybody; not as a specialized activity, just that people happen. I don´t not-is them.

I have never felt discomfort or that it was "against the group" about it.
It is one of my personal convictions that we are all "brothers" and that one should "love despite any reason not to".

(I had an early catholic education, I agree with some of the basic precepts)

 

[Voltaire's Child]

From my experience, it seemed like every other person I met claimed to be a past life Scio. I bet there are more "past lifers" than there are dead scios. I think this was particularly popular in the 70's. I remember being told outright that most of the people who "went clear" in the 70's had simply originated past life clear, given an interview or whatever they did back then before the CCRD, and sent to the bookstore to buy one of those overpriced bracelets.

That's because people often pursue the same goals from lifetime to lifetime. I'm a past lifer, too.

 

[Veda]

I have not seen him for many years now.

I have never been officially out.

Douring the time I was full time in, I never disconnected from the rest of the world.

I have allways been in contact with critics and anybody; not as a specialized activity, just that people happen. I don´t not-is them.

I have never felt discomfort or that it was "against the group" about it.
It is one of my personal convictions that we are all "brothers" and that one should "love despite any reason not to".

(I had an early catholic education, I agree with some of the basic precepts)

Thanks for the response.

I hope you don't mind too much that I take your assertions with a grain of salt.

 

[NeXTep]

I haven't shared stuff that had been verified by pc's I audited and such. I was raised Catholic, and I have the confidentiality thing ingrained in me, so I consider it sacred (and I'm just not ready to share my own stuff in that regard, and don't know that I ever will because I'm not sure what purpose it'd serve). Now, what I'm starting to wonder about...how does the past life Clear stuff reconcile with the OT VIII stuff that says we've been running our BT's cases? Uh...so those who went CLEAR became such DBs that they became BTs????

And, I remember an event where DM was talking about a kid who had recalled being OT V LLT, and had to be convinced to stay in school and grow the body up a bit before he fully 'came back' (accompanied by the PR laughs).....but, he was giving Book 1 sessions to folks! YAY! Seriously...WTF? There is some stuff that creeps me out enough that I think the earlier-life recall might be real. I don't necessarily believe that it might be recall of our own past life, perhaps we contact other realities and learn about others' lives...but the more I look back, the more contradictions I see in what the cult espoused.

Clammy you are right to not share anything that you don't feel that it belongs here. In fact recalling past lifes has no value as such unless you have been able to run out some charge that relates to a past life. If that charge is blown then the best thing is to bury the stuff and go on with one's life. There is no therapeutic value to find out who one was and what one did.

 

[South of the Border]

I haven't shared stuff that had been verified by pc's I audited and such. I was raised Catholic, and I have the confidentiality thing ingrained in me, so I consider it sacred (and I'm just not ready to share my own stuff in that regard, and don't know that I ever will because I'm not sure what purpose it'd serve). Now, what I'm starting to wonder about...how does the past life Clear stuff reconcile with the OT VIII stuff that says we've been running our BT's cases? Uh...so those who went CLEAR became such DBs that they became BTs????

And, I remember an event where DM was talking about a kid who had recalled being OT V LLT, and had to be convinced to stay in school and grow the body up a bit before he fully 'came back' (accompanied by the PR laughs).....but, he was giving Book 1 sessions to folks! YAY! Seriously...WTF? There is some stuff that creeps me out enough that I think the earlier-life recall might be real. I don't necessarily believe that it might be recall of our own past life, perhaps we contact other realities and learn about others' lives...but the more I look back, the more contradictions I see in what the cult espoused.

Yes, I am also big on confidentiality, I only pass along what was not shared in confidence, or meant to be kept secret.



I guess, to most people the past lifes thing is very obscure and out of focus when encountered. All unclear to very, very diferent degrees from person to person.
That is why I found it interesting that my friend who had a perfect recall, could actually recall with such perfection , in a perfect straight time line from life time to life time, with no confusions or guesses about it, or "I feel it was" or "I think I was". He was like "Oh that summer I was hanging out at the beach with george, he was telling me this very funny joke about an elephant when my wife yelled to me from the surf, I ran over to help her and the current was too strong and we almost drowned, she was wearing a big red dress for swimming...."

 

[clamicide]

smiles

Clammy you are right to not share anything that you don't feel that it belongs here. In fact recalling past lifes has no value as such unless you have been able to run out some charge that relates to a past life. If that charge is blown then the best thing is to bury the stuff and go on with one's life. There is no therapeutic value to find out who one was and what one did.

Thank you I sometimes feel obligated on both sides of the fence here, and I don't know why. I know what I know, and there's a hell of a lot more that I have tons of questions on. I'm holding back a lot...and I sometimes feel weird about it. Deep down, I know that's the right thing to do...so, again

 

[Tiger Lily]

About validity of past lives: I do believe there is something to it. Most civilizations in the world believe it, the Vedic Hymns and most great spiritual writings talk about it. Even the Bible has veiled references to it. I've heard enough stories of validated past life experiences (not necessarily Scn related). My daughter even originated something when she was 4 (and we never talked about it at home in my wog household, so she wasn't "primed" or anything). Of course we never drilled her on it enough to be able to check it out. . .we just let her talk.

It's not that I don't believe we live again and again. . .it's just that I think that the CofS exploited that, twisted it and used it for their own purposes. In my case to convince me that I should sell out to the cult. It was masterful.

I think it harmed me more than helped to put attention on it, and I think I was led to take it more seriously than it needed to be taken. That's my frustration. I hope I didn't come across as invalidating anyone's recalls or anything. I think it's possible to get valid recalls, I just think it's more rare than the CofS would have us believe, and I think that peoples' recalls can be manipulated by suggestion.

-TL

 

[nw2394]

Incredible how much 'research' and understanding goes into dealing with 'recalls' that don't fit reality; while almost none goes into verifying if the 'real one's' have any validity at all by checking the data vs recorded history. Maybe that's why Inc 1 'happened' so long ago... can't be researched!

Just an observation.

You've really got no idea have you. In counselling one does not "research", evaluate, invalidate or in any other way query the PC's data. "Validity" has nothing whatsoever to do with it - whether the person, in the their own estimation, 'gets better' or has some sort of realisation about themselves or their life is the test.

Nick

 

[ThisFenceHurts]

It appeared to me that you were stating that 'no one that you've known has read that book and that their only exposure to sci was what they encounter on check sheets' as a testament that you have no experience with anybody coming into contact with lconh's past lives theories prior to having 'recalls about it in session. And I assumed that you were stating that as a means of saying that you have no clue how that could possibly be connected with 'recalls'. That's how it came off to me, thus my response.

So what the hell are you actually trying to say? Maybe you could clarify? Then we could possibly have more 'Hellaciously Delicious' conversation about it...

Go back and read my posts and then tell where I say that no one I know has read it, their only exposure to Scientology is on checksheets, no one i know has come into contact with hubbard's past life theories prior to recalling it in session or that I have no clue how any of that could possibly be connected with recalls. While you're at it, go back and try to find where I claim that past lives are real and that the recall is valid. I'll save you the trouble - I don't say any of that.

Is it possible that you have misidentified me as someone who believes that past lives are a proven fact? Because nearly everything you say seems to me to be directed towards someone with that viewpoint.

 

[South of the Border]

Validity of past lifes

In every case I have seen of honest past life recalls, (out of scn or in). The person having the recall is the least interested in pushing the matter. Only dishonest or insane people go around screaming "I was Napoleon/Christ".

It seems to me that there are some people with no recall at all who are the ones obsesed about the whole thing.

And some times it seems that this obsesed people have a hidden agenda, because they make such a big fuss about it while trying to ridiculize people who have recalls.

I don´t think anyone having recalls should feel bad about it, just because there are as*h*les who invalidate for their own hidden pourposes.

 

[nw2394]

...It seems to me that there are some people with no recall at all who are the ones obsesed about the whole thing.

That's well said

Nick

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Indeed. For one thing, anyone who really understands Scientology would know that in Scn, something that happened in a "past life" would be no more important than what happened last year. It's the postulates and considerations the person had that are the crux of the matter.

I once said something on ESMB about my last life. In some other posts, I'd also mentioned a book I liked (Dianetics in Limbo) and someone thought I thought I was Helen O'Brien (which would make me extremely young, wouldn't it, so I want to thank that person) and then commented that lots of people think that. The Wonder Husband and I were laughing about that because, truly, had I thought I used to be Helen O'Brien (who sounds like an awesome lady, to be sure) and then found out I was totally wrong- so what. It doesn't matter. We're all part of theta anyway. Scientologists are secure enough not to worry about whether or not their memories or past life recalls pan out or not. We have a rather Buddhist outlook on that. Sometimes such a memory can certainly be interesting, but then again, any recall the person has in session should be interesting to him or to her. I personally would find a previous lifetime as a serf a hell of a lot more interesting to find out about than some Cleopatra-esque kind of lifetime. Ever watch the History Channel? Short brutish lives are fascinating.

 

[Veda]

"I know with certainty where I was and who I was in the last 80 trillion years." L. Ron Hubbard.

Ok. I was not in Scientology in the 1970's. But I did meet ONE person who attested past life OTV. It was 1988-89. He was a 10-12 year old kid. He was my friend. I was a kid too.

His last life folders were found, and he did continue were he left off.

I can attest that from my personal experience knowing him, he seemed bona fide. And his knowledge and caracter was fitting with an educated adult and although he had not done practically any Scientology training this life time, he was knowlegable and competent in the tech. He was also a very, very happy kid, allways having a great time when doing the things kids do.

As for past life recall, I do not have it, although I have a "feeling" of having been around for a LONG time. But that doesn't count for evidence, so I will not say in a court of law that I attest to the reality of past lifes based on personal experience.

But I have met several people in Scientology with very good to perfect recall of past lifes. I will also say that it is not allowed to discuss one's case in the church, an so most of the people do not mention their memories or anything they come up with in session.

By perfect recall I mean, a person who remembers all of his life times just as clearly and vividly as this present life time. Yes, that's right. I have met such a person. We were friends, we had many conversations, he talked about any point in the whole track just as easily as remembering the last party we went to and what we did. I do belive his honesty completely, in the way he carried himself and the experiences we had toghether I came to know him as a person you could trust your life with.

-snip-

-snip-

And, I remember an event where DM was talking about a kid who had recalled being OT V LLT, and had to be convinced to stay in school and grow the body up a bit before he fully 'came back' (accompanied by the PR laughs).....but, he was giving Book 1 sessions to folks! YAY! Seriously...WTF?

-snip-

Which came first, Miscavige's description at a Scientology event of a child who was a past life OT 5, or South of the Border's tale of a "childhood friend" who was a past life OT 5?

-snip-

I found it interesting that my friend who had a perfect recall, could actually recall with such perfection , in a perfect straight time line from life time to life time, with no confusions or guesses about it, or "I feel it was" or "I think I was". He was like "Oh that summer I was hanging out at the beach with george, he was telling me this very funny joke about an elephant when my wife yelled to me from the surf, I ran over to help her and the current was too strong and we almost drowned, she was wearing a big red dress for swimming...."

How can you be sure of this? In any event, your friend sure talked about his past lives a lot.

In every case I have seen of honest past life recalls, (out of scn or in). The person having the recall *is the least interested in pushing the matter*. Only dishonest or insane people go around screaming "I was Napoleon/Christ".

It seems to me that there are some people with no recall at all who are the ones obsesed about the whole thing.

And some times it seems that this obsesed people have a hidden agenda, because they make such a big fuss about it while trying to ridiculize people who have recalls.

I don´t think anyone having recalls should feel bad about it, just because there are as*h*les who invalidate for their own hidden pourposes.

You seem to want to shut down this discussion, or at least drive a wedge between its participants.

Why be concerned? It's a spirited discussion. It's free speech. That's a good thing.