Thank you, everyone

[Jump]

Emiko may have heard the scientology versions of the incidents and taken them as correct. I would also be interested to hear what they were.

For example - One such scientology story is to excuse the biggest infiltration into US government as a few people stealing some copy-paper.

However the truth is that about a dozen top officials of the scientology organisation were convicted of the infiltration and jailed - including the wife of L.Ron Hubbard. After this, Hubbard went into hiding from the US government officials in a Bluebird motorhome in Creston for fear of being served papers. He died in seclusion, having gone insane about removing his 'body thetans'.


​

 

[Emiko]

Yeah, some of us are still waiting for you to clear up Lawrence Wright's mistakes. This should be good. You better bring your A game dude.

I will, but it'll take a few days to gather my notes and I'll probably post a new thread about it

 

[Emiko]

Emiko may have heard the scientology versions of the incidents and taken them as correct. I would also be interested to hear what they were.

For example - One such scientology story is to excuse the biggest infiltration into US government as a few people stealing some copy-paper.

However the truth is that about a dozen top officials of the scientology organisation were convicted of the infiltration and jailed - including the wife of L.Ron Hubbard. After this, Hubbard went into hiding from the US government officials in a Bluebird motorhome in Creston for fear of being served papers. He died in seclusion, having gone insane about removing his 'body thetans'.


​

Oh no, I don't take anything out of a Scientologists mouth with a grain of salt. Some of the things he said were just incorrect, but not incorrect enough to dismiss him, just so much so to annoy me as a reader.
Hubbard actually died of a stroke. One may argue he's been insane his entire life

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Emiko, welcome by the way.

But I am confused, that's fairly normal, I'm old and had PTSD for many years. So you were a 16 year old girl and your Scientologist girlfriend was twice your age?

I don't understand how any Scientologist on lines would get away with having a same sex relationship with a girl half her age without considerable interventions from an Ethics Officer. This is not something that would be embraced by Scientologists who all know that 'perverts' are dangerous, and a 16 year old with a 30 year old is possibly not even legal, depending on the laws of the land you were in.

 

[Emiko]

Emiko, welcome by the way.

But I am confused, that's fairly normal, I'm old and had PTSD for many years. So you were a 16 year old girl and your Scientologist girlfriend was twice your age?

I don't understand how any Scientologist on lines would get away with having a same sex relationship with a girl half her age without considerable interventions from an Ethics Officer. This is not something that would be embraced by Scientologists who all know that 'perverts' are dangerous, and a 16 year old with a 30 year old is possibly not even legal, depending on the laws of the land you were in.

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, actually I was equally confused when I discovered Scientology's stance on both sex, sexual "perversions", and homosexuality. Plus since most of the members were being monitored. I really can't explain that, as I never got the chance to ask her. It is to note I've never seen her house and she's always come to my condo, but I don't know how she got away with anything quite honestly.
It technically was illegal, but what can I say. I loved her.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Thanks for the welcome! Yes, actually I was equally confused when I discovered Scientology's stance on both sex, sexual "perversions", and homosexuality. Plus since most of the members were being monitored. I really can't explain that, as I never got the chance to ask her. It is to note I've never seen her house and she's always come to my condo, but I don't know how she got away with anything quite honestly.
It technically was illegal, but what can I say. I loved her.

As a juvenile it wouldn't have been you slung into a cell and put on to a register. Was she staff or public?

 

[Emiko]

As a juvenile it wouldn't have been you slung into a cell and put on to a register. Was she staff or public?

I honestly don't know. Her behavior is what made me look into Scientology in the first place. Other than that we didn't really talk about it other than she believed in spirits and she couldn't explain it and that in order to understand I should take a course. That was about it.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

I honestly don't know. Her behavior is what made me look into Scientology in the first place. Other than that we didn't really talk about it other than she believed in spirits and she couldn't explain it and that in order to understand I should take a course. That was about it.

I have come across many scientologists who can't explain it. Something I never understood. Why would someone dedicate their life to something they can't explain? I have never studied televisions, I'm not technical at all but I could explain roughly how it works, even an internal combustion engine, how is scn so complicated? I think she just didn't agree with it, but hadn't resolved how she felt. She was certainly 'dating' you secretly, knowing that the consequences of discovery would have been dire in the cult and outside of it. That would be why she visited you under the radar. Though why a 16 year old girl was living in her own apartment I don't understand. That. I suppose, is another story.

 

[Emiko]

I have come across many scientologists who can't explain it. Something I never understood. Why would someone dedicate their life to something they can't explain? I have never studied televisions, I'm not technical at all but I could explain roughly how it works, even an internal combustion engine, how is scn so complicated? I think she just didn't agree with it, but hadn't resolved how she felt. She was certainly 'dating' you secretly, knowing that the consequences of discovery would have been dire in the cult and outside of it. That would be why she visited you under the radar. Though why a 16 year old girl was living in her own apartment I don't understand. That. I suppose, is another story.

I didn't live on my own, I lived with some family members in a condo. Goodness, if I could afford that....

Yeah, I've realized that many of them tend to avoid talking about, well, most of what Scientology is about. If you ask a Christian, Hindu, or Muslim what their religion is about, they can give a basic few sentences. ask a Scientologist and it becomes a circle of misinformation.

You know, I always kind of secretly hoped that the reason she left had something to do with fearing our discovery, as opposed to me being labeled a SP. I know the later is almost certainly the case, but it helps ease it all a little bit to think "maybe she had no choice."

 

[George Layton]

How long have you been reading ESMB?

 

[Emiko]

How long have you been reading ESMB?

a few days. I've read a good deal of the family and scientology stories so far. Why do you ask?

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

a few days. I've read a good deal of the family and scientology stories so far. Why do you ask?

Wow, first try to talk to people with simple font, quoting your post is ver interesting, and me forget what the heck I was quoting.... Are you posting fr4om some ancient device?

gah.

 

[Emiko]

Wow, first try to talk to people with simple font, quoting your post is ver interesting, and me forget what the heck I was quoting.... Are you posting fr4om some ancient device?

gah.

I'm sorry! I have to change the font each time I post. I'll set it to ariel and tell me if it's any easier for you to read.

 

[OutToe83]

Welcome to ESBM, Emiko. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I welcome anyone here who wants to talk about Scientology, or anything related (and even some things that are not).

I've reached an age that qualifies me (sigh) for senior discounts, but I don't share Lone Star's seeming disdain of advice from young people. I've learned things from 12-year-olds, not because I was any more ignorant than most peeps my age, but because I was open to listening; and there are young people who have experience I have not, or a point of view I haven't tried.

I have much less experience with the Co$ than a lot of posters here, but I knew enough that "Going Clear" rang true for me. I either experienced or witnessed a lot of the things he wrote about, and I didn't find a thing in the book that was at odds with my experience. So I'm also curious to read what discrepancies you're referring to.

Now if I were going to nit-pick, some of the definitions or terminology was not exactly as "Dr." LRH wrote it. If it had been, most of the public wouldn't have understood what was being described because the technically correct terms describe fictional things that you have to study and bend your thinking just to grasp, let alone believe in.

So as far as I'm concerned, challenging the accuracy of the technical terminology of $cn is like challenging someone's understanding of Spock of Star Trek because he got his eye color wrong. Spock is a fictional character. He doesn't have eye color!! There IS no planet Vulcan and no half-human-half-Vulcan Spock from that planet.
And the complex, often contradictory, often gibberish definitions of $cn Tekh refer to something that's just as fictional as Spock. (Sorry, Star Trek fans!)

Now I'm probably way off-base from what you have in mind, Emiko--I'm just taking the opportunity to get that off my chest. I'll be very interested in reading your post about what you found amiss with Going Clear.

 

[Emiko]

Welcome to ESBM, Emiko. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I welcome anyone here who wants to talk about Scientology, or anything related (and even some things that are not).

I've reached an age that qualifies me (sigh) for senior discounts, but I don't share Lone Star's seeming disdain of advice from young people. I've learned things from 12-year-olds, not because I was any more ignorant than most peeps my age, but because I was open to listening; and there are young people who have experience I have not, or a point of view I haven't tried.

I have much less experience with the Co$ than a lot of posters here, but I knew enough that "Going Clear" rang true for me. I either experienced or witnessed a lot of the things he wrote about, and I didn't find a thing in the book that was at odds with my experience. So I'm also curious to read what discrepancies you're referring to.

Now if I were going to nit-pick, some of the definitions or terminology was not exactly as "Dr." LRH wrote it. If it had been, most of the public wouldn't have understood what was being described because the technically correct terms describe fictional things that you have to study and bend your thinking just to grasp, let alone believe in.

So as far as I'm concerned, challenging the accuracy of the technical terminology of $cn is like challenging someone's understanding of Spock of Star Trek because he got his eye color wrong. Spock is a fictional character. He doesn't have eye color!! There IS no planet Vulcan and no half-human-half-Vulcan Spock from that planet.
And the complex, often contradictory, often gibberish definitions of $cn Tekh refer to something that's just as fictional as Spock. (Sorry, Start Trek fans!)

Now I'm probably way off-base from what you have in mind, Emiko--I'm just taking the opportunity to get that off my chest. I'll be very interested in reading your post about what you found amiss with Going Clear.

Hello and thank you for the warm welcome.

With my issues involving Going Clear, it seems I've allowed a massive miscommunication on my part. I was not saying Wright has performed errors in that he has worsened the opinion of Scientology moreso than he should have. actually, my thoughts are quite the opposite. My issues with Going Clear involve Wright's sugar coating and running through things that I do not believe should have been such. In the end I thought Wright painted Scientology in a better light than it should have been. My issues with the book involve incidents he did not give enough details on and certain issues within the church that he simply didn't address as clearly as I'd hoped. In return, my the end of the book Scientology was shown in a better light than it would have been if he had included those details and accounts. That is my issue with Going Clear.

It seems most readers here thought that my opinions were opposite of this.

also, I'd like to address that Spock does have an eye color if he is described as such. For example, if I had a fictional character named Mary and she had blue eyes, then she does indeed have eyes and they are blue. Is she real? No. are her eyes real? No. However, the character Mary has blue eyes. It wouldn't make someone less aware of Mary's character if they got her eye color wrong, but he or she would have still gotten her eye color wrong.

I do understand what you are trying to say and do agree with what you're saying. The terminology was not an issue for me.
Emiko

 

[DeeAnna]

Hi emiko. And another welcome to you.

You are quite young to have been through as much as you have gone through, what with suffering long-term depression and PTSD. And to have been taken advantage of by a person much older than you are. (You may not see it that way at this time, but the day will come that you will. Sixteen is very, very young. I just can't envision any situation where it would be beneficial to one so young to become emotionally and sexually involved with a thirty year old.

Be that as it may, it seems you are quite the survivor, and that's a good thing.

I am old(er) but learn things from younger folks all the time. Particularly from my grandchildren and 15 year old boys on youtube. It is mostly about computer stuff, but there have been other things lots of times.

I believe intergenerational communication is good for all involved. If for nothing more than keeping current on the slang.
Otherwise, you become like LRH. Whose continuous use of outdated phrases cracks me up anytime I hear one of his awful audio tapes.

Twenty-three skidoo, kiddo! (I have no idea what that means...)

-----------------

Ahh, the internet. I've come back to say "I didn't mean it, I didn't mean it!"

Because here is what it means:
A term used in the early 20th Century for "get lost."
Bums would sleep around 23rd St and when the cops came along they would hit them with their billy clubs and say "23 skidoo."

 

[Veda]

-snip-

And if you're looking for impartial feedback, ESMB is NOT the place to find it -- it's intended for those who have been burned by Scientology and have left in disgust.

-snip-

Hi Helena, IMO, you're misrepresenting ESMB with the above statement.

You're depicting ESMB as populated by irrational people, incapable of "impartial feedback."

I've seen plenty of impartial, and well reasoned, feedback, over many years.

Speaking only for myself, I (was lucky and) was never "burned by Scientology," and I did not "leave in disgust."

I left when I, using observation and reasoning, realized I no longer wished to be associated with the Scientology organization.

I also became aware - gradually over time - that many had been harmed by Scientology, and, while they have a right to be angry, are also, for the most part, quite rational.

Scientology has been exposed and de-coded, and the motivation for doing so is a rational desire to make the truth known and to help others.



[video=youtube;bgiQD56eWDk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgiQD56eWDk[/video]

 

[Churchill]

Hello and thank you for the warm welcome.

With my issues involving Going Clear, it seems I've allowed a massive miscommunication on my part. I was not saying Wright has performed errors in that he has worsened the opinion of Scientology moreso than he should have. actually, my thoughts are quite the opposite. My issues with Going Clear involve Wright's sugar coating and running through things that I do not believe should have been such. In the end I thought Wright painted Scientology in a better light than it should have been. My issues with the book involve incidents he did not give enough details on and certain issues within the church that he simply didn't address as clearly as I'd hoped. In return, my the end of the book Scientology was shown in a better light than it would have been if he had included those details and accounts. That is my issue with Going Clear.

It seems most readers here thought that my opinions were opposite of this.

also, I'd like to address that Spock does have an eye color if he is described as such. For example, if I had a fictional character named Mary and she had blue eyes, then she does indeed have eyes and they are blue. Is she real? No. are her eyes real? No. However, the character Mary has blue eyes. It wouldn't make someone less aware of Mary's character if they got her eye color wrong, but he or she would have still gotten her eye color wrong.

I do understand what you are trying to say and do agree with what you're saying. The terminology was not an issue for me.
Emiko

Regarding Lawrence Wright's book:
You originally wrote that you thought Wright "messed up on a lot of things."
You originally wrote that you "remember that there were events listed that didn't happen the way that was described."
You originally wrote that "one person sourced (in the book) was relatively unreliable."

I'm looking forward to reading your further thoughts about this, Emiko.
I'm very curious to understand what you meant by these statements.
Thanks.

 

[Lone Star]

I've reached an age that qualifies me (sigh) for senior discounts, but I don't share Lone Star's seeming disdain of advice from young people. I've learned things from 12-year-olds, not because I was any more ignorant than most peeps my age, but because I was open to listening; and there are young people who have experience I have not, or a point of view I haven't tried.

One thing you and Emiko have in common is a disability in understanding, or taking things into account in context. (Emiko's hang-up with the word "cult" for example).

On the whole I don't have a disdain for advice from young people if they have some life experience that qualifies their advice.

Emiko's very first post bugged me. It just did. This whole, "Hey all I'm a nineteen year old who's never been in Scientology, but I've gone through some shit and I can help you with anxiety and depression," approach was off- putting to me. I'm sure she has been through some shit. I had already gone through some when I was nineteen. But I wasn't presumptuous enough to offer my advice to people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and older. No, I listened to them instead.

[STRIKE]But I know that many of you in the Baby Boom generation need all the help you can get even in advanced years. It is that great generation that never did quite grow up after all. So yeah, a twelve year old or a nineteen year old may just help you. I do feel sorry for the young folks because today's elderly are pretty fucked up themselves. Sixty five year olds with the maturity of a fifteen year old. One has even been our fucking President for chrissakes. No, make that two actually. (Clinton and Dubya for the clueless reading this). [/STRIKE]

<struck the above paragraph due to it's being overly generalized. Too broad of a brush. Although the part about the Presidents is true. Lol...>

Frankly I think there should be a moratorium on know-it-alls who've never been in Scientology coming here and cluttering the Board up with inane long posts. But that's my opinion.

Probably, it's just long past time for me to go.

DB is nodding head "yes!!!" LOL....

Good luck!

 

[JustSheila]

Emiko, I'm not convinced from your comments that you actually saw the film, 'Going Clear.'

Which specific part of the film did you feel was not a correct sequence? Details.

Where do you feel the film sugarcoated anything? What exact part?

Please be specific in your next reply and give a breakdown. Thanks.

Personally, I thought the film was stunning, accurate and emotionally moving. I didn't think it was even possible to get so in depth with the subject of Scientology in the length of a movie, and yet this was accomplished. It is like no other movie about Scientology and involved a great deal of background information and interviews with exes far, far beyond those that appeared in the film.