The handling of Mass

[Zinjifar]

Between the fake sleeping pills and the laxatives, remind me to never accept ANY thing you offer at face value......

That sounds like a sane maxim in all things Scientology.

Zinj

 

[gomorrhan]

That sounds like a sane maxim in all things Scientology.

Zinj

The first clause, or the second?

 

[Veda]

Excerpts from the first post:

-snip-

The whole purpose of processing is to handle charge, force and MASS.

-snip-

When you process a client, your role is to help and guide them toward confronting and handling force, charge and mass. So, how do you do this?

You ask them what their attention is on. This tells you what is there RIGHT NOW that they can confront. You handle it in real time, not this silly blather of asking a person to go out of present time "down the track".

If something from the past comes up it is because you have handled what was sitting there now, in present time, that was in the way of them seeing that previous material.

Why can they now run a little deeper? They have handled and erased the force, charge and mass that was sitting in the way.

New clients invairably run "shallow". There is charge, force & mass in the way. As you proceed to handle what comes up, they will run deeper.

-snip-

This is how the thread began. Toward the end it accumulated a collection of anxious Xenu Bridge-believers defending their beloved OT III, "Incident 1", "Incident 2," and the rest of L. Ron Hubbard's morbid imagination that has been tattooed on the inside of their skulls.

Inadvertently, one of the problems in salvaging the benign common-sense aspects of auditing, or processing, has become apparent.

 

[Mojo]

"deleted"

by Mojo

 

[Leon]

Look mate, I had a wonderful ride in Scientology. It would be dishonest of me to deny it. The gains were great and they still are. OT-3 was a significant step in all of that.

I remember one guy - he was one of the original Class eights, a guy called Ray Jensen (and he and I were never great buddies BTW) - he said to me quite grudgingly one day that he had never seen anyone else benefit as much from Scientlogy as I had.

For me it was the right thing at the right time and I remain grateful for it. I have also been able to apply it to others and thereby enable them to benefit as well.

So all your hoots and toots fall on deal ears.

 

[Veda]

I had many interesting experiences too, Leon, and audited many people, and did some very good things.

Beginning in the 1960s, Scientology's 'dark side' started to become dominant, and unavoidable - unless one found a safe nook, or placed himself at a safe distance.

I'm no longer IN Scientology.

I graduated.

My message was mainly for others, not for you. I know I can't reach you.

 

[Leon]

Yes dear.

(yawn)

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I had many interesting experiences too, Leon, and audited many people, and did some very good things.

Beginning in the 1960s, Scientology's 'dark side' started to become dominant, and unavoidable - unless one found a safe nook, or placed himself at a safe distance.

I'm no longer IN Scientology.

I graduated.

My message was mainly for others, not for you. I know I can't reach you.

I actually understand what you're saying here. I do think one eventually has to go beyond Scn or at least be willing to look at other things in addition to it.

But we all do so at our own pace and in our own way.

As long as we're not suggesting that people give all their money, freedom and families to CofS, it should be fine.

FWIW, I always liked you.

 

[Blue Spirit]

True

Out of the many who have embarked on the NOTS/SOLO NOTS program, there are, of course, going to be some who believe they have made great gains.

As to whether they actually made gains, or have persuaded themselves that they have made gains is entirely within their sphere and they should be allowed to hold to that reality.

What I object to is the promotion of this program as being the great route out to "OT". This is the hook that draws people in.

I have seen many good, dedicated people die, commit suicide, get strokes, heart attacks and develop cancers. This does not take into account the financial side where people have literally bankrupted themselves, committed financial fraud to raise money for NOTS and left themselves and their families in dire straits.

Put on a balance of scales, I personally beleive that NOTS has caused more harm than good.

My observation agrees. LRH went nuts turning one tech into four "OT" Levels, for money someone close to him told me.

Am I surprised ? Not from what I know now. He was nuts in the later years, make that much more nuts !

 

[Zinjifar]

Show me the freaking flying ashtray!

Is that too much to ask?

Zinj

 

[Veda]

A recurring question: How much does psychological suggestion play a role?

Well, let us sort this out for you.

Your first reaction that it was shite is the same as the large majority of those who enrolled.

Having paid a chunk of cash for the level and being in a rather Ethically dominated environment, dissent is discouraged. So, rather speak up and end up in Ethics, the general step was to buy into the story and take it on board as your own track.

This is where the suggestion part comes in. Again, the stuff about it being "dangerous", freewheeling, cannot sleep for 36 days is all BS, designed to add mystique to it and make it more desirable to the faithful.

At the AO we had a lad, David Gwillam, who claimed he was "freewheeling", couldn't sleep etc. He had got himself into a real state.

So I got an empty pill bottle with a label stating the contents were a strong sleeping tablet. I filled it with Vitamin B1 tablets. I told David that these were strong sleeping tablets and he was to take ONE only, but is sleep-less-ness persisted he could take ONE more.

David took one and went to sleep. Slept like a baby for about 16 hours. He awoke refreshed and pronounced himself "cured"

-snip-

Clearly you have had some gains from going through the procedures of OT 3. That is fine, but they should be viewed alongside the realities of the level.

Dart

Out of the many who have embarked on the NOTS/SOLO NOTS program, there are, of course, going to be some who believe they have made great gains.

As to whether they actually made gains, or have persuaded themselves that they have made gains is entirely within their sphere and they should be allowed to hold to that reality.

What I object to is the promotion of this program as being the great route out to "OT". This is the hook that draws people in.

I have seen many good, dedicated people die, commit suicide, get strokes, heart attacks and develop cancers. This does not take into account the financial side where people have literally bankrupted themselves, committed financial fraud to raise money for NOTS and left themselves and their families in dire straits.

Put on a balance of scales, I personally believe that NOTS has caused more harm than good.

Additional comments by Dart on OT 3 and NOTs:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=77530&postcount=18

My take on this area:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=291813&postcount=145

 

[Blue Spirit]

It Has Happened

Frankly I know OT's who have handled much more mass than that ashtray

purely by intention.

Fact is none of them are left now because they couldn't stand the CO$,

or because in time they got old and died.

I could name names, but few here would know them.

LRH: "Considerations take rank over the machanics of space, energy, and time".

 

[degraded being]

Frankly I know OT's who have handled much more mass than that ashtray

purely by intention.

Fact is none of them are left now because they couldn't stand the CO$,

or because in time they got old and died.

I could name names, but few here would know them.

LRH: "Considerations take rank over the machanics of space, energy, and time".

BS.

 

[Ted]

The "original" materials were a stack of papers, hundreds of pages. They were, essentially a sci-fi story. They were written some time before May 1967, before we arrived. I believe he wrote the script for OT3 sometime in the Autumn of 1967, but I cannot be sure. There had been some comments about Hubbard being busy writing up the "next level".

We knew the subject he was addressing; we had been with him standing by the Thieves Market in Gran Canaria as he explained that everything we saw was an exact replica of how it all was 75 million years ago, even down to the style of clothes people were wearing, how aircraft like the DC-8 would fly from planet to planet.

Virtually all of us had given and received hundreds, if not thousands of hours of processing and were all highly trained. We all had sufficient charge taken off our respective cases to know what was true foir us and what was not.

There was also the fact that Hubbard was pretty well "stoned" most of the time.

Mind you, there were some who accepted what he had propounded as fact. It was real to them. For the rest of us, it was not. Hubbard knew that he was going to have top depend on us when it came time to launch the upper levels, so he included the Loyal Officer bit to ensure our support.

Gee wizz, Batman. That sounds like the definition of SP to me. And being stoned most of the time, what a wonderful way to dull the senses of that "mad, howling situation of some yesteryear."

The cognitive dissonances of scientology will not resolve until the student accepts that Hubbard was bat-shit crazy, attempting to solve his perceived problems through the continuous overt of lying and pretense.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

showing how far I have moved since getting out - when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was something to do with the Catholic Church!

 

[DartSmohen]

Interesting

This thread turned into qiute a debate. Worth reading.

Dart

 

[thefiredragon]

There are numerous different practices out there that basically give the client a nice, soft, warm, fuzzy feeling. Avatar and Identics both fulfill this role and I am sure the clients they have appreciate them.

It is all very well to diddle around with identities and such, but unless you actually dismantle the whole game structure around each identity, you end up basically rearranging the mental furniture.

The whole purpose of processing is to handle charge, force and MASS.

If what you are practicing does not fulfill this essential requirement, then, at best, you are "treading water".

The old maxim of processor plus client together are greater than the baggage the guy is sitting in applies.

I feel sorry for those poor saps who are busy mentally masturbating their way through SOLO NOTS. Talk about a loosing proposition!

When you process a client, your role is to help and guide them toward confronting and handling force, charge and mass. So, how do you do this?

You ask them what their attention is on. This tells you what is there RIGHT NOW that they can confront. You handle it in real time, not this silly blather of asking a person to go out of present time "down the track".

If something from the past comes up it is because you have handled what was sitting there now, in present time, that was in the way of them seeing that previous material.

Why can they now run a little deeper? They have handled and erased the force, charge and mass that was sitting in the way.

New clients invairably run "shallow". There is charge, force & mass in the way. As you proceed to handle whhat comes up, they will run deeper.

This is not rocket science.

Other activities may well help deal with acute situations, in the way an assist will, but there is no substitute for the handling of charge, force and mass.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I like this post!!!

__~~~~~~~

 

[Zinjifar]

"You ask them what their attention is on. This tells you what is there RIGHT NOW that they can confront. You handle it in real time, not this silly blather of asking a person to go out of present time "down the track".

If something from the past comes up it is because you have handled what was sitting there now, in present time, that was in the way of them seeing that previous material.

Why can they now run a little deeper? They have handled and erased the force, charge and mass that was sitting in the way.

New clients invairably run "shallow". There is charge, force & mass in the way. As you proceed to handle whhat comes up, they will run deeper.

This is not rocket science."

This sounds like what 'early' dianetics was trying for. Minus possibly the silly promises of 'Clear' as a 'natural state' that will magically surface after the 'baggage' is gone.

But, it's exactly the fact that no matter how much baggage you rid yourself of, more appears that led to the discovery of 'Whole Track' charge and past life baggage and and and....

Enough 'charge' to keep the customer on-lines forever. Since, after all, the magical 'Clear' state never appears. Oh yeah, and, the baggage comes back. Because the *theory* is wrong.

Zinj

 

[Ralph Hilton]

This thread seems to have wandered off from the original topic regarding handling of mass and force.
A senior datum for any C/S is that the PC will love to wander off into significance and that the C/S must direct them into the handling of mass and force.
One of the problems with the Scientology training line upm is that one is given issues with details of how to write a worksheet and thay are assigned equal impotance with issues on fundamentals.
There are consequently fundamantals which get forgotten.
C/S series 6 is fundamental to the correct application of the tech.
A frailty of Solo Nots is that the Pre-OT has probably never read C/S series 6.
So they wander off into significances.
When you ask the question "What are you?" then the intention must be directed toward mass not significance. It is a WHAT not a significance.
Going for mass and force is fundamental to Scientology.

 

[nothomonovis2]

Mental Mass...turbation

Is what it should be called. Mental mass?

Look around you. That's life. Those people? They're real. They matter. They have feelings, fears, hopes, dreams, desires. Some of them will do nothing of consequence to the world at large. Some of them will commit atrocities. Some of them will, as 'wogs', create bigger positive effects on the world than sitting in a room thinking for hours and hours and hours year after year after year. Many - MANY - will exhibit the simple bravery of waking up every morning and going to work so their families can live and eat and love.

And guess what? You DON'T know what they're thinking. You don't know just by talking to them what their tone level is and thus what their actions will be. You just don't. If that were true - just the tone scale and the process of its obnosis - this board wouldn't be here.

Focusing in on mental mass and making it bigger, more important, and more deserving of your time than the actual living of life is what leads otherwise decent people like DianaClass8 to post blithe cruelties such as the ones in this thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13877&page=6

Two valued logic - black and white, right and wrong, with us or against us, no shades of gray - all these things open the door to inhumanity.

Mental Mass... Stop looking in! There's a whole beautiful world out there full of amazing, interesting, awful, wonderful people. Life is available to you right here, right now, exactly where you are. Don't think about it so much - live it!