Attitudes to Death and Dying

[Mojo]

NO! At that level, even awareness is an additive.

.

Who told you that? Lol. They were mistaken (or worse, they lied!)

Saying awareness is an additive to being is like saying a tree trunk is an additive to a leaf. So sayeth the leaf, that is.

Understandable of course, as Mr. Hubbard was a Master par excellence in authoring such plausably sounding nonsense. Nonetheless it is nonsense.

Nothing personal here mind you....I'm just sayin...

Mojo

 

[Vinaire]

The request for definition of awareness renders the reality of awareness (as a practical matter) moot, V. As a definition is a pointer to a meaning, and is not a meaning in or of itself. Here is Mind in full glory. Lol. (not that that's a bad thing, I'm just sayin...)



'You' are not being aware, 'Aware' is being you ,V. You've got the cart before the horse my friend. You've got the mind (being effect) enthroned as spirit (being cause). Which is akin to imagining silence as being the product of speech. It is not. Or stillness being the product of motion. It is not. Likewise then, Awareness preceeds thought in much the same manner silence preceeds speech and stillness preceeds motion.

The question of time is a red herring. Ok, just kidding. It's not a red herring, but it is highly unproductive to speculate about the relationship between awareness and time until the relationship between awareness and thought is understood. It obfuscates the more essential question of the two (or three or four).

Nonetheless, for the record, here goes (lol): time is an effect in like-manner as sound and motion (& thought/mind) are effects. Consequently (pardon the pun) imagining there is no awareness absent time is akin to imagining there is no silence absent speech, or no stillness absent motion. Which is to say it's an error. An understandable error, yes. A useful error, yes. A near universally shared error, yes. But an error nonetheless.

Surely the most essential idea brought to the masses (or certain portions of the masses) by the Masters of Antiquity was the idea of the mind as being a hinderance to Divine-Self-Realization yes? Yes.

Well here we have a living example of that essential idea in full bloom. So to speak.

Lol!

Mojo

Too much noise... you seem to have words enthroned as awareness.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Who told you that? Lol. They were mistaken (or worse, they lied!)

Saying awareness is an additive to being is like saying a tree trunk is an additive to a leaf. So sayeth the leaf, that is.

Understandable of course, as Mr. Hubbard was a Master par excellence in authoring such plausably sounding nonsense. Nonetheless it is nonsense.

Nothing personal here mind you....I'm just sayin...

Mojo

Nothing but arrogant hot air...

 

[Mojo]

Nothing but arrogant hot air...

I seemed to have (accidently) hit a button.​

Come on V, you're bigger than that. Don't take it so personal & petty. There are numerous individuals here that would take your statement to me:" Nothing but arrogant hot air" as the pot calling the kettle black, as you tend to speak with great confidence yourself. My words are hot air and your words are wisdom? Lol!

I wrote: "Saying awareness is an additive to being is like saying a tree trunk is an additive to a leaf. So sayeth the leaf, that is."

Try to explain why what I have said above (as an analogy) is inaccurate. Your post implied quite clearly and succinctly that awareness is jr. to being. My post implied quite clearly and succinctly that what you wrote is nonsense. Awareness is Being.

Should we take the concept a step further (absent personal affronts) I would strongly suggest (or demand, lol) that the two phenomena's are actually two sides of one coin.

Nonetheless, I will respect your human sensitivies V. And if my arguments against your posted theories actually do offend you personally, I will cease to challenge your arguments, in the interest of peace.

Sincerely,
Mojo

 

[Vinaire]

I seemed to have (accidently) hit a button.​

Come on V, you're bigger than that. Don't take it so personal & petty. There are numerous individuals here that would take your statement to me:" Nothing but arrogant hot air" as the pot calling the kettle black, as you tend to speak with great confidence yourself. My words are hot air and your words are wisdom? Lol!

I wrote: "Saying awareness is an additive to being is like saying a tree trunk is an additive to a leaf. So sayeth the leaf, that is."

Try to explain why what I have said above (as an analogy) is inaccurate. Your post implied quite clearly and succinctly that awareness is jr. to being. My post implied quite clearly and succinctly that what you wrote is nonsense. Awareness is Being.

Should we take the concept a step further (absent personal affronts) I would strongly suggest (or demand, lol) that the two phenomena's are actually two sides of one coin.

Nonetheless, I will respect your human sensitivies V. And if my arguments against your posted theories actually do offend you personally, I will cease to challenge your arguments, in the interest of peace.

Sincerely,
Mojo

OK then, it is a hot hurricane... nothingness does not equate to being.

Nothingness is nothingness.

.

 

[Mojo]

OK then, it is a hot hurricane... nothingness does not equate to being.

Nothingness is nothingness.

.

Fair enough V. Let me ask of you a simple question. And please do not direct me to a pre-scripted understanding you once penned in the recent or distant past. I've been to your web-site (both older & newer versions) and have read much of what you have written. And have been duly impressed, by the way. Kudo's to you. And thank's from us all.

The question: Do you believe, or understand, that in the absence of a first-hand, first-person experience of the Awareness of Being, the Awareness of Being is something that is subject to mental interpretation to exist?

Ok, that was altogether too muddy to understand, let me try it again in this way: Do you believe thought is necessary for the Awareness of Being to Be? Yes. That's it. That's relatively succinct. Do you believe Thought is Necessary for the Awareness of Being, to Be?

Thanks in advance.

Mojo

P.S. if you answer me with a one-liner (throw-away) cute statement I will be forced to disconnect from you, forever (and ever and ever). Ok, so not for that long, but for at least one week.

Mo

 

[Vinaire]

Fair enough V. Let me ask of you a simple question. And please do not direct me to a pre-scripted understanding you once penned in the recent or distant past. I've been to your web-site (both older & newer versions) and have read much of what you have written. And have been duly impressed, by the way. Kudo's to you. And thank's from us all.

The question: Do you believe, or understand, that in the absence of a first-hand, first-person experience of the Awareness of Being, the Awareness of Being is something that is subject to mental interpretation to exist?

Ok, that was altogether too muddy to understand, let me try it again in this way: Do you believe thought is necessary for the Awareness of Being to Be? Yes. That's it. That's relatively succinct. Do you believe Thought is Necessary for the Awareness of Being, to Be?

Thanks in advance.

Mojo

P.S. if you answer me with a one-liner (throw-away) cute statement I will be forced to disconnect from you, forever (and ever and ever). Ok, so not for that long, but for at least one week.

Mo

Each word of my answer will be a packaged thought and that is all you are going to get from me or anybody. No matter what words I use they won't translate as an answer to your question. The true answer must come from within you.

All I can do is point, and I have done enough of that in your case.

True silence is in not asking any questions.

.

 

[paradox]

How do you define "awareness"?

How can you be aware if there is no TIME?

.

Mojo said it purdy good. As he pointed out, a definition is not the ineffable reality, but only a mental conception, a map but not the territory. With that said, then, awareness is absolute abiding presence of emptiness, nothingness pregnant with the potentiality of all becomingness of form. Awareness is timeless, that which is, always has been, always will be present. Time is the consciousness of relative motions, a mental compulsion to track the endurance, the change, of the existence of things relative one to another. Time is conditional. Timeless awareness is non-conditional, requiring nothing including time and consciousness. It just IS. And is entirely, wholly, sufficient unto itself as that timeless abiding still presence from which all else, all that is susceptible to change and measurement, emerges and returns.

These words and concepts are not it.

 

[paradox]

Each word of my answer will be a packaged thought and that is all you are going to get from me or anybody. No matter what words I use they won't translate as an answer to your question. The true answer must come from within you.

....
.

That was well-put, V. Ditto for me. Such is the medium we are using. I think for the most part we're all on the same page. Potential quibbling and bantering over semantic niceties or nuances aside.

 

[Vinaire]

Mojo said it purdy good. As he pointed out, a definition is not the ineffable reality, but only a mental conception, a map but not the territory. With that said, then, awareness is absolute abiding presence of emptiness, nothingness pregnant with the potentiality of all becomingness. Awareness is timeless, that which is, always has been, always will be present. Time is the consciousness of relative motions, a mental compulsion to track the endurance, the change, of the existence of things relative one to another. Time is conditional. Timeless awareness is non-conditional, requiring nothing including time and consciousness. It just IS. And is entirely, wholly, sufficient unto itself as that timeless abiding still presence from which all else, all that is susceptible to change and measurement, emerges and returns.

These words and concepts are not it.

You are giving your definitions, aren't you?

.

 

[paradox]

You are giving your definitions, aren't you?

.

Mojo said it purdy good. As he pointed out, a definition is not the ineffable reality, but only a mental conception, a map but not the territory. With that said, then, blah blah blah

These words and concepts are not it.

Rather pointless, but yes. The presumption being we're at (more or less) conscious play here.

 

[Tanstaafl]

NO! At that level, even awareness is an additive.

.

I'm struggling to understand, Vinay.

What about awareness of bliss or serenity?

 

[Mojo]

Mojo said it purdy good. As he pointed out, a definition is not the ineffable reality, but only a mental conception, a map but not the territory. With that said, then, awareness is absolute abiding presence of emptiness, nothingness pregnant with the potentiality of all becomingness of form. Awareness is timeless, that which is, always has been, always will be present. Time is the consciousness of relative motions, a mental compulsion to track the endurance, the change, of the existence of things relative one to another. Time is conditional. Timeless awareness is non-conditional, requiring nothing including time and consciousness. It just IS. And is entirely, wholly, sufficient unto itself as that timeless abiding still presence from which all else, all that is susceptible to change and measurement, emerges and returns.

These words and concepts are not it.

Quite Beautiful P.

Adding to that I would say the primary difference between Spiritually Awakened Beings of the past and Spiritually Awakened Beings of the moment is the later have a broader and greater foundation to stand upon, than did the former. So to speak.

Over the course of the last few thousand years that product called the mind of man (being actually of the spirit of man in the form of mind) has evolved almost exponentially.

And as V has said, or implied, when we can touch the words that describe the Truth we are already simply not there. So to speak. At least that's the way I behold it.

Nice post P.

Mojo

(or M. for short, lol)

 

[paradox]

Quite Beautiful P.

Adding to that I would say the primary difference between Spiritually Awakened Beings of the past and Spiritually Awakened Beings of the moment is the later have a broader and greater foundation to stand upon, than did the former. So to speak.

Over the course of the last few thousand years that product called the mind of man (being actually of the spirit of man in the form of mind) has evolved almost exponentially.

And as V has said, or implied, when we can touch the words that describe the Truth we are already simply not there. So to speak. At least that's the way I behold it.

Nice post P.

Mojo

(or M. for short, lol)

to you Mojo and everyone else on this thread. :baby1:

 

[Vinaire]

I'm struggling to understand, Vinay.

What about awareness of bliss or serenity?

Anything added to NOTHINGNESS is additive to NOTHINGNESS.

NOTHINGNESS is simply NOTHINGNESS.

Apply the Vedic process "Neti, neti," and see where its gets you.

.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Anything added to NOTHINGNESS is additive to NOTHINGNESS.

NOTHINGNESS is simply NOTHINGNESS.

Apply the Vedic process "Neti, neti," and see where its gets you.

.

I don't know if we've fallen into a semantic swamp or what(?) :confused2:

It just seems to me that the purest form of existence would be aware of bliss or serenity, and possibly it's potential to be aware of othere things. After all, if we started from this place then how did we get to where we are now?

Otherwise lad, there'd just be nowt, and nowt'll come of nowt!

 

[Knox Harrington]

Hey KH.

Ooh, you better not get me started on music!

Too late!

All my Allan Holdsworth bowdown: ) CDs - I'm not going anywhere without them unless I can make some kind of spiritual copies I can take with me.

All my cherished Mike Keneally CDs.

At least 50 of my 70-odd Zappa CDs.

Bruford's three awesome jazz rock albums from the late 70s.

My fave fusion CDs by Tribal Tech, Nguyen Le and Wayne Krantz.
My fave 70s prog CDs by Genesis, Yes, ELP, Rush, King Crimson.
My fave classical - Stravinsky, Wagner, Copeland.
Joni Mitchell and Kate Bush (for when I need to get in touch with my feminine side ).
David Sylvian's first three albums.
All the Kings X CDs in case I need some decent rock.

That'll do for starters.

Oh, I'll get you started tough guy, don't you wurry nun bout dat. I'm a simple man and like my songs melodic and under 4 minutes please, but in the last week been diggin on some "Expensive Shit" by Fela Kuti, might be more up your alley. I like Zappa's "Hot Rats" quite a bit. "Who needs the Peace Corps" is hilarious, "Uncle Remus" is bizarrely affecting, "Sexual Harassment in the Workplace" is the best title for an instrumental piece since "A New Career in a New Town", and I think we can all agree that "Cosmik Debris" is a fitting song to mention on this website.

As for Wagner, he scares the shi* out of the sl*pes, know wahm sayin?


P.S. If you guys wanna see some unusually entertaining C-Span coverage, look on Youtube for the clips of Frank Zappa testifying before Congress
regarding the Parental Advisory stickers. To Al Gore no less. Hilarity!

 

[Neo]

Anything added to NOTHINGNESS is additive to NOTHINGNESS.

NOTHINGNESS is simply NOTHINGNESS.

Apply the Vedic process "Neti, neti," and see where its gets you.

.

Why must we assume that any or all SOMETHINGNESSES are being added to NOTHINGNESS?

What if awareness wasn't added to NOTHINGNESS? What if it just is?

What if NOTHINGNESS is a 'subtraction' from awareness?

Just thoughts, LOL.

Neo

 

[Vinaire]

I don't know if we've fallen into a semantic swamp or what(?) :confused2:

It just seems to me that the purest form of existence would be aware of bliss or serenity, and possibly it's potential to be aware of othere things. After all, if we started from this place then how did we get to where we are now?

Otherwise lad, there'd just be nowt, and nowt'll come of nowt!

Interesting conundrum , isn't it!

.

 

[Vinaire]

Why must we assume that any or all SOMETHINGNESSES are being added to NOTHINGNESS?

What if awareness wasn't added to NOTHINGNESS? What if it just is?

What if NOTHINGNESS is a 'subtraction' from awareness?

Just thoughts, LOL.

Neo

Anything is possible. I like the "neti, neti" process. It is very liberating.

.