Lies, lies lies

[nozeno]

I got told this a lot. This $5000 for an intensive will make you more able, so you can pay the debt. Or, it will only cost you $50 a month to pay the $5000. And that will take me 30 years to pay off.

Or you could take a billion years to pay it off. That's only .000005 cents a day. The interest is what kills ya.

Why doesn't the "church" let you charge it. Then you could owe the money to them and not your credit card issuer.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I had an auditor fly to my home back in the late 80s to give me an ARC Break session.

Who paid the plane fare?

Paul

 

[Dulloldfart]

I had an auditor fly to my home back in the late 80s to give me an ARC Break session.

On a broom?

Paul

(Sorry. I suppose I should validate the rightness.)

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

On a broom?

Paul

(Sorry. I suppose I should validate the rightness.)

You made me laugh. No, he came by plane. We got done early, so I took him to the mall so he could buy his wife a gift, since he wasn't around much. Years later, his wife was a total bitch to me when I was on course. Sorry, I had your husband do something nice for you.

 

[nw2394]

I said some things that weren't true when I was in. But they weren't lies because I did not know they weren't true. I won't say CofS members never lie- I've caught staff members doing it on some occasions. But there are a lot of people who are telling the truth as they see it, as they've been told. They have been lied to.

One may, in some sense, be less culpable if one doesn't know something is a lie. However a falsehood is a falsehood. As far as I can see, for one to not know it is a falsehood requires that the falsehood matches one's previous erroneous observations.

Nick

 

[Voltaire's Child]

At what point does reckless disregard for the truth and deliberate ignorance become 'lie'?

Never?

When is wishful thinking a 'lie'?

Never?

Zinj

I already said CofS staff sometimes do lie and that I've seen it. I already said lies take place there.

It's different for everybody. I've seen people say things they knew damn well weren't true. They had rationalizations, I'm sure, but fact remains- they were deliberately not telling the truth. I've seen others hide the truth from themselves where they kinda suspected that something was wrong but they kept saying whatever it was.

I don't fall in that category. When I found out what the scoop was, I admitted it. Then I left. I did not lie. I was deceived and when I found out what was going on, that was it. I started speaking up, speaking out, then I left.

Some people do stay longer and say and live lies. Some don't. Some do to an extent, some do to a greater extent.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

One may, in some sense, be less culpable if one doesn't know something is a lie. However a falsehood is a falsehood. As far as I can see, for one to not know it is a falsehood requires that the falsehood matches one's previous erroneous observations.

Nick

Well, I'm going by the actual definition of lying. I said things that weren't true but I believed them. So I have no problem saying I didn't lie.

But I will never say that I did NOT say and believe things that were total and utter bullshit (falsehoods, lies, untruths...) . I did say and believe such things, of course.

 

[ExCMO]

I've got several:

1. YOU can make a difference by joining the SO. (But orgs continued shrinking, PR flaps would continue happening, public would continue leaving)

2. Of course you will be paid on weekly basis. (Sometimes the SO staff in my continent would go on MONTHS with no pay or only the equivalent to 3 or 8 US dollars).

3. It is a lie that you need to complete your high school/college education. The training you get here is much more valuable than whatever you get outside. (I was probably trying to do same overt I got done on me. I had to do my "wog" education as an adult when I left just to find a decent-paying job)

4. Being in the Sea Org allows you to really grow on all of your dynamics. (What dynamycs? DM's?)

5. We do this for the greatest good. (And the Co$ has produced tons broken families, broken lifes, broken minds)

6. Yes, I know that living conditions are not as great as one'd expect, but you can help to improve by joining in. (Conditions always sucked)

7. This is THE ONLY way out. There's nothing better you can do in your life. Thinking otherwise is just plain out-ethics. (Way out of what? Is being a christian, buddhist, catholic, or whatever out-ethics? Morals and values are a personal thing, regardless of beliefs or preferences)

8. You will move up the bridge. Your are entitled to 2 1/2 hours of daily study and your auditing will be taken care of. (No study time for months —too many flaps to handle, too tired to study, no auditors).

The worst part of it all is that I KNEW I was lying and still did it "for the greatest good".

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

I've got several:

1. YOU can make a difference by joining the SO. (But orgs continued shrinking, PR flaps would continue happening, public would continue leaving)

2. Of course you will be paid on weekly basis. (Sometimes the SO staff in my continent would go on MONTHS with no pay or only the equivalent to 3 or 8 US dollars).

3. It is a lie that you need to complete your high school/college education. The training you get here is much more valuable than whatever you get outside. (I was probably trying to do same overt I got done on me. I had to do my "wog" education as an adult when I left just to find a decent-paying job)

4. Being in the Sea Org allows you to really grow on all of your dynamics. (What dynamycs? DM's?)

5. We do this for the greatest good. (And the Co$ has produced tons broken families, broken lifes, broken minds)

6. Yes, I know that living conditions are not as great as one'd expect, but you can help to improve by joining in. (Conditions always sucked)

7. This is THE ONLY way out. There's nothing better you can do in your life. Thinking otherwise is just plain out-ethics. (Way out of what? Is being a christian, buddhist, catholic, or whatever out-ethics? Morals and values are a personal thing, regardless of beliefs or preferences)

8. You will move up the bridge. Your are entitled to 2 1/2 hours of daily study and your auditing will be taken care of. (No study time for months —too many flaps to handle, too tired to study, no auditors).

The worst part of it all is that I KNEW I was lying and still did it "for the greatest good".

These are good.

 

[Zinjifar]

Impoverished New Public thinking about quitting school and his day job to join staff and get his 'Bridge' talking to a 5-year-contract Staffer in his 3rd Year:

P: So, how's that working out for you?

S: I LUUUuuuvvv it!

P: Cool

Zinj

 

[Wisened One]

OMG, soooo guilty of this one....oh wow....DON'T bring back the memories.....

Wisened One

Impoverished New Public thinking about quitting school and his day job to join staff and get his 'Bridge' talking to a 5-year-contract Staffer in his 3rd Year:

P: So, how's that working out for you?

S: I LUUUuuuvvv it!

P: Cool

Zinj

 

[Good twin]

lie? or misinformed assumption?

Okay! I got that many or even most lies were unintentional and were thought to be harmless at the time they were told. That's the point. The question wasn't what intentional lies have you told it was: What lies have you told that you tried to believe yourself as you told them?

This is the service that you really need.

All that stuff that you went through wouldn't have happened if you had already had this next service.
(carrot on the stick)

You were targetted because you are a really big being.
(Then why do i feel so degraded?)

The IAS is making the planet safer for everyone.
(the gloom and doom continues and gets worse with each reg cycle)

There is no other game worth playing.
(I know many happy and productive non Scientologists doing amazingly worthwhile things)

Once you have stepped onto "The Road to Truth" you can never step off. All manner of ill will befall you.
(saw all kinds of people step off and do fine)

GT

 

[Alan]

Once you have stepped onto "The Road to Truth" you can never step off. All manner of ill will befall you. (saw all kinds of people step off and do fine)

GT

Perhaps the "road to truth" they were on turned into a quagmire or dead end - so they backed up and found a better, truer, and much smoother road!

 

[Infinite]

..

Perhaps critics lie too. I mean, is it a lie to tell people "Scientology is all about Xenu"? I've been told its a lie.

I guess its not *all* about Xenu when one takes into account the stories of its survivors and the human relationships forged in that furnace. Those other and real truths which are discovered seem, from my perspective, to be peripheral to Scientology and are certainly not unique. And, isn't Xenu ultimately the ostensible reason for Scientology, the cause of what ails humans and which Scientologists must seek to overcome?

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say "Scientology is all about the money".

 

[GreyLensman]

Irnobs,

I was "active" for many years. I have the credit card bills to prove it!

But, yes I was denied any real bridge progress the entire time. That's okay by me.

Big lie:

All of this will save you time on your OT levels.

I had a friend who insisted on continuing to audit solo, flying his own ruds whenever he felt he needed to. He continually ended up in cramming but nothing much ever came of it.

I would have considered auditing daily on OT VII a gift and an ideal lifestyle - of course, that was back when people actually finished and a six month check was a hardship but not yet an assault and financial rape.

I've looked through the materials and I don't see why I couldn't audit them now if I wished. But...

But the biggest lie was that this is the only way out, and that this was my eternity. I'm sorry, but you get what you put your attention on - after I finished auditing OT III I had issues with other identities impinging and bringing their case with them. After a few reviews I stopped accepting and giving attention to and having that case, and by god it stopped.

Objective process - exercise, get a workout daily, lift weights, command the body, force it to work through it's "limits".

 

[Claire Swazey]

Something can be incorrect and not a lie.

Like your statement about Scn being all about the money. For some it isn't. Some people really believe it's their ideology and it's a labor of love or philosophy for them. Though to deny that there is money grubbing would, of course, be completely off base, now wouldn't it.

 

[Infinite]

Something can be incorrect and not a lie.

Sure, a watch set an hour late is incorrect. But someone saying its 2pm when its 3pm is a lie. Not a big lie, nor an especially dangerous one. Most likely, the person will be told or will find out for themselves that the watch is incorrect, change it, and stop telling that lie. As a metaphor, Scientology is a bit like a watch that cannot be corrected. For so long as someone keeps using it, they will lie.

Like your statement about Scn being all about the money. For some it isn't. Some people really believe it's their ideology and it's a labor of love or philosophy for them. Though to deny that there is money grubbing would, of course, be completely off base, now wouldn't it.

For that to be true, I would have to confuse the subjective reality of Scientology's victims with the objective reality of Scientology itself.

EDIT: Hmmm . . . second thoughts . . . yeah, I think it get. In my earlier post about "all about Xenu" I made the same mistake with the subjective/objective + subject/human-experience. And, of course, Xenu is actually the sleight of hand to dsitract from the money aspect. Still, it is a great inoculation device but, if I am to tell the truth, I will have to stop staying its all about Xenu.

 

[JackStraw]

I used to Reg and the one lie I HATED telling people was the:

'Oh, well pay for this course/auditing/package and you'll be 'more able' and be so much more 'clean' and 'make things go right' faster and then you'll 'pull in' MORE funds....

And some of them would fall for it, pay for it....and then several maxed out credit cards later.....

They're left with this huge amount of debt in addition to all their regular bills and kids to raise, mortgages to make,etc...

?????

Wisened One

When I was on staff I had a reg ask me to take out loans they KNEW I couldn't repay. I asked How does violating LRH Finance Policy accomplish "the greatest good?" The reg didn't really have an answer for me...

Jack

 

[Panda Termint]

Yes, Jack, scientologists are somewhat prone to Magical Thinking.

 

[Gottabrain]

Yes, Jack, scientologists are somewhat prone to Magical Thinking.

That has got to be the Understatement of the Year.