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Marty: David Miscavige branded “violent and toxic”

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Marty: David Miscavige branded “violent and toxic”
http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/david-miscavige-branded-violent-and-toxic/

David Miscavige branded “violent and toxic”

Posted on September 22, 2011 by martyrathbun09| 100 Comments

Chris Guider was my subordinate in his capacity as Inspector General’s MAA for some time. Chris is one of the most honest, conscientious, and ethical people I had the pleasure of working with while in the Sea Organization (Corporate Scientology’s elite order). Thanks for standing up and sounding off Chris. You can watch Chris do so here, breaking news from Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3323979.htm
Mirrored on YouTube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4tC8q53qK0


Scientology Myths
http://scientologymyths.com/


http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...ige-branded-violent-and-toxic/#comment-149664

Margaret | September 22, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Reply


Chris, Great job! I’ve added your name and statement to the list of individuals who witnessed and/or received — and have publicly and openly spoken out about — Miscavige’s physical violence.

For any newcomers, I’m including the fully updated list of nearly two dozen individuals below, and you can also see it at the link behind my name above:

————————–

Chris Guider (former Inspector General MAA [Ethics Officer] at International Management, late 1980s-1990s worked directly with Miscavige) said this on September 22, 2011 to Australian TV:

“[David Miscavige] is a violent individual. … I’ve seen him physically beat one staff member, Mark Fisher, who was formerly an executive in RTC and worked very closely with Miscavige for a lot of years. And I witnessed [Miscavige] beating him. …”
“[Miscavige] was standing behind a person, who was editing the [video]. And [Miscavige was] telling him how he was doing this wrong and that wrong, and screaming at him. In the Ethics Officer role, you have this little … “riding crop” [stick] … and it’s just meant to be a symbol of authority that the Ethics Officer has. Well anyway, Miscavige told me to BEAT the guy with the stick. I looked at him and I refused to do that. He took that very, very severely on me because I didn’t just do what he wanted me to do.”

(Source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3323979.htm)


Mark Fisher (former Corporate Liaison to Miscavige [supervising household and special assignments] circa 1980s-1990) made this comment:

“Miscavige .. came racing across and grabbed me around my throat, and started choaking me, and I immediatly went down into a fetal position on the ground and covered up because I didn’t want to fight back or get hit. He was pulling on my hair and was punching at me and kicking at me. And this went on for two or three minutes. And when he finally stopped and calmed down, I stood up and I reached behind my head and my head was bleeding behind from him pulling my hair. And I pointed my finger at him and looked at him right in the eye, and I said ‘You notice I didn’t lay one finger on you’. And the reason I said that was because I wanted everybody else to notice that HE was the reason that this was going on, not me, I wasn’t the one that was doing anything physical or fighting back. … That had a profound impact on me as to why I wanted to leave because when you’re talking about the person who’s the head of the organization that you’ve dedicated your life to is actually physically attacking you … that’s not why I got involved in Scientology. I got involved in Scientology to help people.”

(Source: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/)

Marty Rathbun (former Inspector General of RTC, 2nd in command to Miscavige, 1984-2004) made the following statements in 2009 and 2010:
“Working with Miscavige from 2000 forward was a continually deteriorating condition … regularly Miscavige would, in the middle of a conference, physically assault, punch open handed, tackle people.”

“Mark Yager got beat up, kicked on, had large volumes thrown at him by Miscavige.”

“Ray Mithoff got beat up by Miscavige.”

“Mark Ingbar got beat up by Miscavige.”

“Mike Rinder got it worse, [I saw him] get beatup at least a dozen times by Miscavige.”

“Tom DeVocht got beatup by Miscavige a couple of times, and seeing that one time,
caused me to leave.”


(Sources: http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/ , http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/scientology/scientologists-level-accusations/story?id=8792417 , http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html , http://markrathbun.wordpress.com)


Mike Rinder (former International Scientology Spokesman; Head of Office of Special Affairs for 25 years, 1981-2006) made the following statements in 2009 and 2010:
“I was at the [receiving end] of repeated acts of random violence at the hands of Miscavige.”

“I was physically assaulted some fifty times by David Miscavige.”

“[His physical assaults on me] happened more than once. He’s a very volatile personality. He will lash out for uncalled-for reasons.”

“There is no doubt that there are dozens, if not hundreds, of others who would tell the same stories of their experiences [with Miscavige] if they weren’t being coerced into silence either by threat of disconnection from their families, loss of job or legal action being brought against them.”

“Where is Heber [Jentzsch]? … The answer is simple: Miscavige hates Heber. … Heber has not only witnessed Miscavige-brand physical and mental abuse, he has experienced it firsthand. … I have seen Miscavige strike Heber on at least 10 occasions.”

“Having to lie to the BBC about Miscavige beating people was the straw that broke the camel’s back and I walked out while in London [in 2008].”


(Sources: http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/scientology/scientologists-level-accusations/story?id=8792417 , http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html , Australian News interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOv0LtzXlx4 , http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/ , http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/)

Janela Webster (former head of AVC International, RTC, 1990 – 2007) made these comments in April 2010:

“I am writing this to make it known my own personal experience with the physical and emotional abuse I either witnessed or experienced from David Miscavige. … Norman Starkey: how could you stand up [on CNN] and lie about David Miscavige not laying a hand on you? I was standing right there in the office when he just walked up to you and boxed you in the ears with no concern whatsoever. And you, a senior citizen in your ‘60s? … While I have my own personal experiences of being thrown in the lake; sleep deprivation; being incarcerated on the Int base and forced to sleep on a cot in my office for 7 months; starved on a diet of rice and beans for weeks; the most destructive and painful of all was the forced disconnection from my daughter in 2001.”


(Source: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/)


Amy Scobee (20 year Scientology International Base veteran, helped build Celebrity Centre network) made these statements in 2009 and 2010:

“David Miscavige is an extremely abusive, tyranical leader.”

“[David Miscavige] grabs Mike [Rinder] around the neck, swings around and is choking him, and he’s holding [Mike's] neck. And Mike starts grabbing the side of his chair and struggling and not knowing what is going on. And his face is turning red, and his veins are popping out his neck, and I’m going ‘What in the hell is going on?’”

“Miscavige jumps up on the conference table and jumped at Jeff Hawkins, tackling him to the ground.”

“Miscavige jumps up on the table and lunges at Wendell Reynolds, knocking chair and Wendell back.”

“Miscavige went straight after [Mark] Yager, grabbed his shirt and threw his whole body onto the ground.”


(Sources: http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/ , http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html , Australian News Interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOv0LtzXlx4 , http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/ , http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/)

Mike Lemeron (former Sea Org member for 21 years, worked with LRH in 1978, later worked at Gold at Int, doing lighting for International Events) made these comments in 2010:

“I was no senior exec but I did have the privilege of being around LRH for about a year back in ’78. I know that he generally did 2 solo auditing sessions per day. During that time he wrote the scripts for and directed some tech training films and wrote the Battlefield Earth book. He was definitely not evil nor dictatorial to his crew although the production demand was very high. …As for DM, he is basically the anti-LRH.”
“David Miscavige is a violent person and I have seen and experienced it for myself and I have subjective reality. I used to do lighting for the Int events and I personally saw David Miscavige be very rude, invalidating and condescending toward the other speakers. Years prior to that I was his table server at meals with other executives – long before he assumed his “COB” title. One day, during dinner, he followed me into the kitchen and pushed me up against a wall because he thought I was being rude. I have seen him being both physically [and] verbally abusive on different occasions during the nearly 21 years I was around him and his area. Anyone saying David Miscavige is not violent and has not committed violent acts on others is a complete liar or a dupe.”


(Sources: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/clearwater-retrospection/#comment-19997 , http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/mike-rinder-on-todaytonight/#comment-39152)

Marc Headley (former Senior Executive at Golden Era Productions in International Management, 1995-2000):

“I myself on at least 10 different occasions have witnessed David Miscavige actually physically strike other staff members to the ground, strike staff members so many times or damage them physically that they actually needed medical attention or that a medical officer from the facility would have to come bandage them or treat them. In one instance, I myself was punched several times by David Miscavige in the face for basically arguing or talking back to him during a discussion that we were having.”


(Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk0NLEohgKo)

Karen Pressley (former head of Celebrity Centre Network and former International Public Relations Officer, 1980s-1990s):

“I’ve seen [David Miscavige] slam people against a wall, by the neck, by the shoulders. … Ray Mithoff, who was the Snr C/S International (his office was across from mine when I was the International Public Relations Officer; we were in the Del Sol Building) … was constantly under the gun with David Miscavige. And I was present once when he threw Ray Mithoff against the wall, and took his shirt and threw him up like this [gestures upward], and told him he was an SP and a piece of shit. And made him get on his hands and knees and just humiliated him. And right after that, Ray Mithoff was sleeping in a tent on a hillside and having to pee outdoors with no toilet facilities. And cleaning floors with toothbrushes. … Miscavige used every psychological tactic, physical abuse, verbal abuse, to dehumanize him.”


(Source: http://vimeo.com/13073239)

Jeff Hawkins (35 year Sea Org veteran [1969-2004], marketing manager who created the DMSMH marketing campaign which put DMSMH back on the NY Times Best Seller list in the 1980s) made these comments in 2009 and 2010:

“I never saw [Rinder] abusing others, despite the abuse he received from Miscavige. Mike was, without question, THE most abused person at the Int Base. He was rarely allowed to sleep. He was physically beaten by Miscavige on many occasions. How he managed to carry on with his work and deal with media I do not know. He has great reserves of strength, which I hope are serving him well now that he is out.”

” CNN: ‘You’ve worked with Marty Rathbun. You’ve worked with Mike Rinder. The Church told us, that they were the ones leading this reign of terror, that Marty was the one responsible for these beatings.’

“Jeff: ‘Absolutely not true. Absolutely not true. David Miscavige was the one leading this whole physical violence kick. And it was him who was beating people up. … [Miscavige once] jumped on the conference room table, with his feet right on the conference table, launched himself across the table at me — I was standing — battered my face and then shoved me down on the floor.’

“Jeff: ‘Miscavige was always threats, bullying, haranguing people, verbal abuse, physical abuse. That was his game. He is a bully.’”


(Sources: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/ , http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html)

Tom De Vocht (former Church construction supervisor in Clearwater [1986-2000] and Int base construction [2000-2004]) made this comment in Apr 2010:

“Dave asked me a question … and the next thing I knew, I’m being smacked in the face and knocked down on the ground, in front of all these people. This is the ‘Pope’
[Miscavige] you know, knocking me down on the ground.”


(Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/03/30/scientology.violence/index.html)


Steve Hall (Worked at Int Base as writer from 1988-2004; came up with Church’s tag line “Know Yourself. Know Life.”) said the following:

“The four assaults I witnessed where David Miscavige actually attacked someone were against Mike Rinder, Mark Yager, Guillaume Leserve and Ray Mithhoff (four of the highest-ranking officers of the Church of Scientology). In the case of Mike Rinder, he and I were standing shoulder to shoulder when Mike was attacked. Miscavige didn’t like a minor edit that Mike had made to a video we were working on. Suddenly Miscavige just went off: he lunged, grabbed Mike’s head with both hands and bashed his head into solid cherry-wood paneling three times putting his whole body into the effort. Mike has since departed from the Church. Violent physical abuse is just the tip of a dark iceberg.”


(Source: http://www.scientology-cult.com/scientologys-dictator.html)


Karen De La Carriere/Jentzsch (LRH-trained Class XII C/S, former wife of Heber Jentzsch, President Church of Scientology International) made this comment on March 24, 2011:

“Last night I went to dinner with an Ex SO [Sea Org] member that I had not seen for 30 years. It was a remarkable dinner. Here was a guy who worked like a dog in the Sea Org, had production 2nd to none, a household name in Sea Org circles and he told me the story of being locked in a room, waiting for HOURS with no food or water til David Miscavige entered the room with an entourage. This PUNK [Miscavige] always has a gang around him for protection. DM never engages in brutality one on one. He is always surrounded by numbers and a gang for his THUGGERY and ABUSE. He punched this SO member in the jaw with a heavy blow and then spat on him. There was no Committee of Evidence. There was no explanation on what the Sea Org member did or did not do. No charges were ever brought. There was just violence and ABUSE from the top command structure. …This veteran ex SO member has never told his story on the web. He took a Miscavige assault and suffered in silence.”


(Source: http://leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2011/03/23/the-anecdotal-fallacy/ as Karen#1)


Gary “Jackson” Morehead (former Security chief at the California Int base from 1990 to 1997) had this comment:

“Yes, Scientology has done good for mankind. I saw and see it. What I also WITNESED first hand was DAVID MISCAVIGE physically hit SCIENTOLOGY HIGH RANKING EXECUTIVES AND STAFF. I witnessed DAVID MISCAVAGE make 5 SCIENTOLOGY EXECUTIVES defecate into a clear plastic bag out in the broad open, make them shower by use of a garden hose in the broad open – male and female executives mind you.”


(Source: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/20...of-truth-and-freedom-of-speech-and-the-press/)


Eric Knutson (former CMOI and WDCI Executive, Department Head of Gold; worked at the Int Base from 1980-1990) had this to say on August 21, 2010:

“While working on a construction project as a Department Head in Gold in the late 80′s, I was summonsed to the RTC office building at the Villas to answer some kind of question Miscavige had with regard to the project I was working on. For some reason I was called to the office where Mark Fisher and Jason Bennick worked directly under David Miscavige as his execution arms. Jason and I were the only ones in the room with DM. I had answered any questions Miscavige had and when I was finished he asked Jason a question about his post (I don’t remember the subject content). Jason replied and DM came flying across the office behind Jason’s desk where he was sitting. Screaming obscenities, Miscavige started punching Jason with body shots to the chest and ribcage with closed fists as Jason used his arms to protect himself from the thudding blows. I remember Jason’s eyes as big as saucers filled with terror in his disbelief as to what was happening. It ended almost as abruptly as it started. I remember DM looking at me with an expression that stated clearly ‘this is what will happen to you if you fuck up.’ ”


(Source: http://rediscoverscientology.com/under-a-dark-cloud.html)


Bruce Hines (former Senior C/S in Scientology from 1987-2003) said this:

“[Miscavige] just walked up and hit me on the side of the head … with an open hand … It definitely hurt, and it definitely knocked me back.”


(Source: ABC Nightline interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BddkM-qcLvo)


John Peeler (Delphi School graduate; in SO from 1989-2000; worked at CC Int and then Int Base) said this:

“I witnessed David Miscavige as well as other executives and staff at the base beat people up, slap others around, spit on people, overboard people, and a number of other punishments for either no reason at all or for disobeying orders or non-compliance. Even smaller things found out, such as masturbation, became huge issues blown up and read out at staff musters.”


(Source: http://scnforum.org)


Don Larson (Former Finance Executive, worked with David Miscavige in the early 1980s) said this:

“There were about 15 of us … we took the Commanding Officer [of the SF Org] … and he was sec checked on the meter … and there was a whole row of people around the guy … this had nothing to do with religion anymore … this was ‘Where’s the money Jack!? I want the money, where did you put the money!?’ He said ‘I don’t know, I don’t have the money’. So David Miscavige comes up to him and grabs him by the tie and starts bashing him into the file cabinets.”


(Source: http://www.whoisdavidmiscavige.com/category/videos/)


Larry Brennan (helped create high level Church structure for LRH in late 70s and early 80s; personally worked with Miscavige during this period) said this:

“In the lair of [Miscavige] I am sure that “status” means everything. From my years of working with him I found him at best to be a highly immature, spoiled and abusive status seeker. I’ve also found the types of things I’ve heard Marty [Rathbun], Mike [Rinder] and others say about his abusive and his need for a false “status” to be correct and in keeping with what I witnessed as well.”


(Source: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/egoist-maximus/)


Dan Koon (former Snr C/S International; worked with LRH on tech films in late 1970s, was “Joe” in TRs Film) made these comments in 2009:

“I spent nearly 27 years at the Int bases in La Quinta and Hemet, when LRH himself worked there (and David Miscavige was the video cameraman on the first Cine shoot crew), and when LRH was off the lines, when he passed away and throughout the rise and reign of DOB RTC (Dictator of the Board). I saw these bases morph from incredibly alive, all-over-the-Tone Scale, mostly positive but always hopeful operations to the present state of affairs that is chronically below 2.0 and where Boredom let alone Mild Interest are unobtainable dreams. … I can personally attest to the observations that Mike [Rinder] has reported in this blog post. Many of you reading it may be in disbelief. If you could see the stats of Int Scientology and know that David Miscavige sits squarely atop the entire Scientology movement and is, thus, where the buck must ultimately stop, maybe your disbelief would at last be forced aside. Because we all know that the stats are the bottom line: auditors made and preclears well audited.”
“When I first joined the Sea Org, LRH was there, he met with us. We made films together. … And life with him around was wonderful. … he went off the lines for good in 1986. … It certainly became a lot less fun as the years went on. By the time I left in 2003, it was very unfun. … A lot of the stuff you read on the blogs about experiences at the Int Base, I can attest that they’re all extremely accurate. I lived through them, I observed them. I know people, good friends of mine, who are now out, will attest to the same thing. It was just not the Scientology I joined in the 1970s and 1980s.”


(Sources: http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/ , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bhBXjB88ek)


————————–End of List————————
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Should be made as a post it thread
This is bullet proof evidences
one watch and make his own conclusion
Thank's for posting!
 
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Veda

Sponsor
A gentle reminder to any MartyWorld people who might be lurking: The instructions re. slapping, etc., came from 'LRH Advices' in 1982.

And now a brief tour of some background - There's much more, but this is a small sampling:

"I can make Napoleon look like a punk." 'Excalibur' letter, 1938


In 1951, Polly, Hubbard's first wife, wrote this letter to Hubbard's 2nd wife, Sara (From court records):

"Sara-

"If I can help in any way, I'd like to - You must get Alexis [Hubbard's daughter by Sara] in your custody - Ron is not normal. I had hoped that you could straighten him out. Your charges probably sound fantastic to the average person - but I've been through it - the beatings, threats on my life, all the sadistic traits you charge - twelve years of it. I haven't asked for anything, but with all the money rolling in from 'Dianetics' I had hoped to get enough for plastic surgery for Kay's [Ron Jr.'s younger sister] birthmark - Please believe I do want you to get Alexis."


And from the 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders' -a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter - on the topic of how a subordinate should relate to his "power":

"[The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...

"...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...

"...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."



"I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher." 1969, 'Discipline, SPs, and Admin'


From Alan Walter, student on the first Class VIII course:

"The scene with overboarding on the Original Class VIII Course was if an auditor did not get an F/N on their pc at examiner - they were thrown overboard.

"We would line up on the well-deck in the morning at 8.00 am - LRH would look down from the deck above and announce who would be thrown overboard.

"He was surrounded by his Aides. Also he was recording all of this on camera....

"I remember looking up at them - I was staring into the face of shear madness and evil.

"Usually 8 to 10 people were thrown overboard each morning.

"It was about a 30 foot drop into a filthy feces laden water from the other ships and the Apollo directly releasing their sewage into the channel...

"This was October 1968.

"....Ron had Julia Salmon thrown overboard... terribly overweight and could not swim.

"The people who threw her overboard struggled to get her over the side; she was terrified; she kept crying out "I cannot swim!" On her way down she hit the side of the ship - I could hear her screams - it was obvious she was injured and drowning.

"The people on the deck all stood around too afraid to do anything. Fearing to originate any action less the become the target of LRHs displeasure.

"I ran and jumped over the side and rescued her. I then pulled her over to the ladder that led up to the ground level of the dock........it was about 20 feet straight up. She could not climb the steps. I had my shoulders under her butt pushing her up..... no one still had come to help.......but at the top of that ladder stood LRH filming us.....such evil.......

"Anyway after an immense struggle with Julia's help I was able to push her up to the top of the ladder....finally some help arrived.

"Over the years the unthinkable thought pushed forward more and more....it was 'that I observe that LRH was demonic at that time'. I did not want to know that, did not want to believe that.......that was too incredible to be believed - even for me - I did the usual make nothing of myself....'you're seeing things', 'what do you know', 'you've got overts' - much easier to blame self than confront what is.


Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986:

"He [L Ron Hubbard] could be capable of incredible cruelty. On the ship there was an old man on the Royal Scotman [later renamed 'Apollo'] who he made push a peanut round the decks with his nose. He had to get down on his hands and knees, he had to go round the deck, quite a long distance in a race with one or two others also in trouble. The first one back got let off and the last one got a double penalty.

"It was really tough on this old guy, Charlie Reisdorf. The surface of the deck was very rough wood, prone to splinter, so after pushing peanuts with their noses, they all had raw, bleeding noses, leaving a trail of blood behind them. I not only saw it but the entire crew of the ship was mustered - a mandatory attendance - we were required to watch this punishment, to make an example of it for the rest of us. Reisdorf was in his late 50s probably. His two daughters were messengers, they were 11 or 12 at time and his wife was there also.

"It was hard to say which was worse to watch: this old guy with a bleeding nose or his wife and kids sobbing and crying at being forced to watch this. Hubbard was standing there calling the shots, yelling, 'Faster, Faster!'. It was indignity, degradation and breaking a person's will, and making people watch. It was disgusting...

"They used to have people locked in the chain locker, including small children. It was very dangerous because if the anchor started to slip and started running out, it would probably turn a body into a pulp in no time at all...

"He [LRH] had a birthday party on March 13, 1968; there was a woman who he ordered locked in the chain locker. During the party he had brought her out. She was filthy, covered with dirt and rust, and had not been allowed to wash or change clothes - she had been in there for a week... he brought her out to the party. He said he was giving her a reprieve and permitting her to come to the party, as if that was a nice gesture. She wasn't allowed to change. She was brought to the party and had to stay, and later was returned [to the chain locker]... it was flaunting her degradation...

"Why did people stand by?...

"From time to time, Hubbard would cancel such activities like the chain locker, and blame it on someone else... He would start such pronouncements with, 'It has just come to my attention...'

"The length of time for children would vary, but no one was less than a day...

"Reisdorf [peanut pushing] affair - if someone tried to do something, it would have made it worse. Hubbard said that maritime law prevailed... He said that under maritime law, he had total power over everyone on the vessel..."

And one brief excerpt concerning events from the late 1970s:

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."


Of course, another reason people tolerated these, and the other abuses by Hubbard, was that Hubbard had convinced them that he was the "Source" of the "only hope for Man," and the "Source" of the "route to Total Freedom" and out of the "labyrinth."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
Also, the notion of "overwhelming" people with invalidation and strong emotions came from Hubbard. I saw this as a COMMON practice in my EARLY days with Scientology - long before Miscavige began his own unique reign of lunacy.

I remember being drilled as a Sea Org executive in the late 70s, early 80s, to "rip people's heads off" with loud accusative yelling. Remember, "never fear to harm another in a just cause" - including your JUNIORS! :duh:

I remember watching other senior executives "drill anger" so that they could "do it well" (use and express ANGER).
 
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Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
L Ron Hubbard issued the instructions to use violence . . .

For the record . . .

Jesse Prince | November 2, 2010 at 5:31 am | Reply

I’m glad you brought up this subject of how the crimminality and destructive behavior escalated to what it is today in Scientology. I will start by saying I am not an L Ron Hubbard hater. I am also not an L Ron Hubbard adorer either. I just want to bring up personal knowledge that I have concerning Miss Cabbag’s odd behavior of abusing staff. The behavior of attacking staff DID NOT start with Miss Cabbage or Marty R or anyone else. Here is how it started from my eye wittness account. The year was 1982. The majority of International management (Exec Strata and CMO INT) had been removed from post. Out of that group of people there were two of them that really irritated L Ron personally. The two people I am refering to here is John Attack (EDIT probably John Aczel) and David Mayo. For those who were around in 1983, there was RTC Conditions Order #1, a Com Ev on about 12-18 people. The exact number that comes to mind was about 18, but on this I could be mistaken but it was an unsual amount of people on the bill of particulars. I was either a member or secretary of that comm ev that went on for months. During this time RTC as well as ASI and CMOI would send up weekly reports to L Ron on the state of affairs with Int Mgmt ..etc. A report was sent to him each week concerning the comm ev and L Ron would often order this or that investigation of the people being comm ev’d. John Attack was the Exec Strata person over Div 6 activities and L Ron pretty much hated John and I understand hate is a strong word but so were the circumstances. To make a long story short, I read an advice from L Ron to Miss Cabbage ordering him to spit in John’s face and tell him that was from L. Ron. Miss Cabbage complyed with his order and reported the result. I saw the advice that came back to the compliance report of spitting in John’s face and L Ron was very pleased to here the news and escalated the situation by suggesting someone should slap the hell out of John Attack. Sure enough, as John was held by others, John was beaten by Miss Cabbage. Similar degrading actions were taken with David Mayo and this soon spread to others deemed to be SP’s. Prior to this it was unheard of at least by me for any staff member to attack another staff member. In fact it was a serious ethics offence to attack a fellow staff member. I knew Miss Cabbage before he was asked by L Ron to attack staff. He NEVER put a hand on any staff member period and I knew him for years prior to his orders to attack staff members. His wife Shelly would also encourage other executives to abuse staff in this manner and if they didn’t they were accused of having their finger falter on the trigger of a gun. In other words, pull the trigger. God only knows what the hell she was talking about but there you have it. It is so important to have the truth known so that people are not confused.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I personally witnessed and heard more than a few El Ron angry, mean and downright vicious tirades directed at folks from Hisself’s Personal Steward to Senior Flag Execs…16 year old adolescents to 50 year old adults. I heard El Ron speak chidingly, mockingly and cruelly about long time, dedicated Scns in the Field, Service Org Execs and Scn Staff in general. It is no shock to me that El Ron would order someone physically “ruffed up”. After all, what’s a little choking, slapping and spitting compared to authorizing innocent people to be framed for felonies.

Face :)
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
I have a question Face

Are you aware that Rathbun and\or Rinder would have witnessed the same tye of event you did ???? (I mean if they knew from personnal observation ron's cruelty and violence toward people)

Did they know , at that time, about the cruelty toward children (locked in chainlocker room) aboard the Apollo

This is very important issue for me to know as ot make my own judgement


'' El Ron peak chidingly, mockingly and cruelly about long time, dedicated Scns in the Field, Service Org Execs and Scn Staff in general.''

To me this reflect as a mirror David Miscavige behavior - look like how ''dad'' educated his ''spiritual son '' :nervous:
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
I personally witnessed and heard more than a few El Ron angry, mean and downright vicious tirades directed at folks from Hisself’s Personal Steward to Senior Flag Execs…16 year old adolescents to 50 year old adults. I heard El Ron peak chidingly, mockingly and cruelly about long time, dedicated Scns in the Field, Service Org Execs and Scn Staff in general. It is no shock to me that El Ron would order someone physically “ruffed up”. After all, what’s a little choking, slapping and spitting compared to authorizing innocent people to be framed for felonies.

Face :)

Well, "they are just thetans in meat bodies". "You can't hurt a thetan". "It is only MEST".

What are a few bruises and scrapes (on a meat body) compared to the eternal freedom (of a spirtual being)? :confused2: :duh:

Anyway, "Sea Org members are TOUGH and can take it"! :thumbsup:

You shouldn't have joined the Sea Org if you planned on remaining a wishy-washy panty-waist mamby-pamby pussy! :omg:

(the above is SARCASM)
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, "they are just thetans in meat bodies". "You can't hurt a thetan". "It is only MEST".

What are a few bruises and scrapes (on a meat body) compared to eternal freedom (of a spirtual being)? :confused2: :duh:

Anyway, "Sea Org members are TOUGH and can take it"! :thumbsup:

You shouldn't have joined if you planned on remaining a wishy-washy painty-waist mamby-pamby pussy! :omg:

(the above is SARCASM)

:coolwink:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Someone that was on the Apollo and moved about on it most probably would be able yo say most people who were there very long pretty much knew what was going on ship board....it was a smallish ship not an aircraft carrier.
 

cakemaker

Patron Meritorious
A gentle reminder to any MartyWorld people who might be lurking: The instructions re. slapping, etc., came from 'LRH Advices' in 1982.

Do you have a link to these advices/info?

One of the best descriptions of the violent mind set is, in my opinion, in the Otto Roos Story at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/roos/roos-story.html

It includes this event, "A few days later I was called up to his Office and upon entry was hit, kicked screamed and shouted at. (Even the Aides were not in sight, hiding as he was really mad!)"
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Someone that was on the Apollo and moved about on it most probably would be able yo say most people who were there very long pretty much knew what was going on ship board....it was a smallish ship not an aircraft carrier.

Thank you
Very difficult to find informations about mike and Marty relationship to LRH
The is a huge silence about that - a vaccum

:confused2:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I have a question Face

Are you aware that Rathbun and\or Rinder would have witnessed the same tye of event you did ???? (I mean if they knew from personnal observation ron's cruelty and violence toward people)

Did they know , at that time, about the cruelty toward children (locked in chainlocker room) aboard the Apollo

This is very important issue for me to know as ot make my own judgement


'' El Ron peak chidingly, mockingly and cruelly about long time, dedicated Scns in the Field, Service Org Execs and Scn Staff in general.''

To me this reflect as a mirror David Miscavige behavior - look like how ''dad'' educated his ''spiritual son '' :nervous:

Here’s what I know re: your question lotus…I hope this is helpful to you.

As far as the children locked in chain lockers I don’t know if M or M knew about that or not. I became Flag Crew a few years after that and Rinder came on Board the Apollo after I did. Marty was never on the Apollo. I heard about some of the stuff that went on during the “Liability Cruise” and the early days from fellow Crewmembers that were there but I did not know about children being locked up in the chain locker until I read it on the Internet a few years ago. On the Apollo one was careful about what was said about El Ron and how it was said.

The accounts regarding the children are by folks that I personally knew and that I hold to be truthful. I saw enough harsh treatment and conditions on the Apollo to know that the accounts I’ve read about the Apollo’s early days--’67-’70--are completely believable. I also saw El Ron interact with Hisself’s own children and it was often passive/aggressive.

I had heard about the overboardings in ’68 from one of the original CL VIII’s but, as I learned later, they had “flowered up” and embellished their story so that it was made out to be far less dangerous and cruel than it actually was. I have to admit, that when I was in the SO I did the same thing when folks would want me to tell them a “Ron Story”. I saw many other folks that had been on Hisself’s personal lines do the same thing that have subsequently told the real story…people like Hana Whitfield, Laurel Sullivan, Tonya Burden, etc.

Rinder would have had some knowledge of some of El Ron’s tirades and personality quirks as many of the folks on the Apollo were of this. However, Rinder never had the time in proximity to El Ron that I did, and I believe this goes as well for his time at Int. Shortly after Rinder came on the Apollo he was posted as Kerry Gleason's "CO Flag Bureaux Comm". Gleason spent a number of years as one of El Ron’s favorites and, at that time, often shouted at, mocked and verbally and emotionally bullied his personnel and had “pets” just as El Ron did. So, Rinder indirectly got exposed to abusive El Ron personnel “Tech” via Gleason. This helped prepare Rinder for subsequently being posted in the CMO.

To my knowledge, Marty never had any “Facetime” with El Ron nor was ever in physical proximity to Hisself. IIRC, I have read that he may have had written and message traffic of some sorts with Hisself.

DM had personal interaction with El Ron on the movie sets in the early days of Gold. He most certainly saw El Ron in “action” and how Hisself “related’ to people whom Hisself held dominion over. And, per what I have read on the Internet, DM had extensive written and message traffic via Pat Broeker with El Ron when Hisself was on the lamb in the ‘80’s.

Part of my “Shooting Stars” Thread is discussing and analyzing my observations and thoughts regarding El Ron’s intentionally fashioning the CMO into what it ultimately became--Children of the Corn. The closer you got to “Source” the heavier, crazier and surreal life became. The CMO was more “Ron-like” and to El Ron’s liking than any other group ever in the History of Scn. Folks that were recruited directly from the Field for the CMO--like DM--were molded into its image and either “got ‘it’” or were cast aside or left. Folks that were ripped off from Orgs and Units for the CMO were folks--like Rinder--that already had demonstrated in some way that they’ve “got ‘it’”.

As far as cruelty to children goes, most everyone that was in the SO at that time--including M&M--didn’t need to know about the children in the chain locker story to know that the SO was cruel and harsh for children and their parents. Also, anyone that was deep enough into El Ron’s “Inner Circle” would have known that Hisself was aware that the conditions for SO children would shock and revolt the “Wog World” and many Public Scns…anyone that says that, “El Ron didn’t know” is either a liar or a fool and trying to protect Hisself’s “Legacy”.

Face :)
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
Marty and Mike seem to have as the "highest concern" maintaining the LRH brand. They seem to have this desire to maintain and perpetuate the ILLUSION that Hubbard was this all-wonderful, all-knowing benefactor of Mankind. :puke2:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Marty and Mike seem to have as the "highest concern" maintaining the LRH brand. They seem to have this desire to maintain and perpetuate the ILLUSION that Hubbard was this all-wonderful, all-knowing benefactor of Mankind. :puke2:

Yep. :yes:

Without that, they've got bupkis and they now it. :whistling:

Face :)
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Face,

Many thanks - this is priceless
You had and are helping so much to assemble the puzzle
:flowers2:

I saw many other folks that had been on Hisself’s personal lines do the same thing that have subsequently told the real story…people like Hana Whitfield, Laurel Sullivan, Tonya Burden, etc.

I foud all my informations form Hana Whitfield testimonies on videos.
Also, some events she did relate have been confirmed with a few children there at the time and one member of the crew - A lady I guess.
From the record i've seen, it has been said that in fact, It was LRH who ordered the locking of the children as well as the offloading



Rinder would have had some knowledge of some of El Ron’s tirades and personality quirks as many of the folks on the Apollo were of this. However, Rinder never had the time in proximity to El Ron ....
... Rinder indirectly got exposed to abusive El Ron personnel “Tech” via Gleason. This helped prepare Rinder for subsequently being posted in the CMO.

Okay
I was under the impression that Rinder had work closely with LRH
It's important to know , that he couln't ''not know'' the abusive LRH behavior on the Apollo. Some others old timer said the same than you.

To my knowledge, Marty never had any “Facetime” with El Ron nor was ever in physical proximity to Hisself.

Okay
This issue is now clear to me.
So when he speaks about The great humanitarian LRH was, I can now consider he is as credible and knowledgeable than I am , when I say the opposite.


And, per what I have read on the Internet, DM had extensive written and message traffic via Pat Broeker with El Ron when Hisself was on the lamb in the ‘80’s.

I beleive Jesse told it - alse it has been said that they did some other type of exchanging and sharing some other type than Sea Org on duty night
* DM apparently brought Big amount of Money for LRH - and apparently they enjoyed Casino with part od the money :confused2:

But this is very difficult to confirm- as only few could know it - Jesse from seck checking DM on LRH's order and people who did look after LRH.

Folks that were recruited directly from the Field for the CMO--like DM--were molded into its image and either “got ‘it’” or were cast aside or left. Folks that were ripped off from Orgs and Units for the CMO were folks--like Rinder--that already had demonstrated in some way that they’ve “got ‘it’”.

This I remember
Beginning of 80's at flag
to me , CMO was like the little monsters hitlerian's youth
We were order to call these children (sir) wich I never did and they said they were choosen because they wer pure mind - not yet contaminated in the wog and degraded as adults... Only them could be loyal and of trust to the Commodore

* This has been my first alarm - few years before I had read Georges Orwell 1980
while decades before, one had probably read mein kampf

.... Hisself was aware that the conditions for SO children would shock and revolt the “Wog World” and many Public Scns…anyone that says that, “El Ron didn’t know” is either a liar or a fool and trying to protect Hisself’s “Legacy”.

This point I never saw at Flag even thgough there was children at that time
It's like if they were hidden somewhere and the older (12 +) did work with us.
But they were left alone by themselves and were never seen with their parents.
Face :)

I would need many hands to count on my fingers the numbers of times SO at flag told stories about being in LRH environement - Was so theta - He would make you so big thetan - would key out you - ......:melodramatic:


Really,
Thank you Face , what you share are important informations we can rely on.

:hug:
 
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Boojuum

Silver Meritorious Patron
After reading this thread and seeing the videos, I shake my head and wonder, "What was I thinking." It's all so utterly nutty.

I work in wogdom. I was in a wog high school and grammar school within the past week. I live in wog central. The extreme actions of the cos are so outre, bizarre, and weird that if the general public had a concept of what goes in the SO, Miscavage would be in jail and Scientology would be closed.

The Church of Scientology is WEIRD.

Thanks for sharing and commenting.
 
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