NBC interview: Marty Rathbun & cult harassment.. YT vids being taken down..

[Gib]

I've not read even one sentence of any of his books myself. I have no desire nor plans to read his books.

I'm going largely on what Jesse Prince has said about Marty's past and experience....especially in the early days. For one thing a women was blown away sitting in a car next to him by a deranged SO member. That's according to Jesse. Not a book.

we are on the same page.

 

[Lone Star]

Tone down the personal attack/insults, please.
The mud-wresting pit is over there >>>
and we really don't want to go there.

I understand. I know I'm skating on thin ice. I also understand and even empathize with those who still have hard feelings towards Marty Rathbun. But when he his called a "motherfucker" when he's not even here to respond....well it ticks me off. Engage what Marty did while still in without the personal insults...fine.

I think Marty is at least trying to help undo what he did. Which is more than what most of us here are doing. Hammering away on a message board. Yeah...that's real effort.

SP83 can just not watch the upcoming HBO film then. After all, Marty and Mike both are featured in it. They were both "evil" back in the day. So don't watch it. If you do, then you're a hypocrite. SP83 is....not Mod3.

I'll give myself a vacation from ESMB to save you and the other Mod the trouble.

 

[Moderator 3]

There's no need to take a break. Just tone it down, which isn't the same thing as make it downtone, lol. I like your passion, it's refreshing to me. I like your humor, I can use all the laughs I can get. I like the people here and hate "disciplining" anyone.

 

[Veda]

I hope Moderator 3 will let us know when it's OK to criticize and question Marty again.

I agree that Marty is evolving and improving, and that deserves to be acknowledged.

And I too was touched by his recent emotional video.

When the time is right, I hope Marty will spill the rest of the beans. There's much more than he has said so far.

That is when the time is right.

 

[Moderator 3]

Tone down the personal attack/insults, please.
The mud-wresting pit is over there >>>
and we really don't want to go there.

I hope Moderator 3 will let us know when it's OK to criticize and question Marty again.

...

This is Bullshit, Veda, and you know it. The friendly warning was to two posters here who were flaming each other. Your spin/interpretation on that friendly warning is just odd.

 

[JustSheila]

I hope Moderator 3 will let us know when it's OK to criticize and question Marty again.

I agree that Marty is evolving and improving, and that deserves to be acknowledged.

And I too was touched by his recent emotional video.

When the time is right, I hope Marty will spill the rest of the beans. There's much more than he has said so far.

That is when the time is right.

Veda, I don't think Mod3 ever had a problem with criticizing or questioning Marty. If you're referring to the other thread, I saw it as frustrating, because there was no debate allowed by the other party posting and those who questioned that poster received long replies that did not answer the questions. It was like a running monologue. That's okay for a blog post, but in a forum, it's supposed to be a debate or conversation.

But maybe we all agree that there is more for Marty to say. I don't have a problem with him leaking info through other sources though, and with all he's gone through and done recently, it's only human to give the guy a break and help and support him.

But I couldn't agree more with you that right now is bad timing for that - all the way around.

 

[Sindy]

This is Bullshit Veda and you know it. The friendly warning was to two posters here who were flaming each other. Your spin/interpretation on that warning is just odd.

Yes, a little snarky. I liked the post in terms of him wanting Marty to continue to spill the beans but I think that he's moving along that track already so no one is going to push that process along any faster by commenting on a message board I dare say.

 

[Veda]

This is Bullshit Veda and you know it. The friendly warning was to two posters here who were flaming each other. Your spin/interpretation on that friendly warning is just odd.

That how I see it. Currently, I don't feel safe questioning or criticizing Marty on ESMB.

Your warnings predate these latest two warnings.

That's why I've decided to abstain from questioning or criticizing Marty on this forum at this time.

 

[SPsince83]

I hear what you're saying and we should certainly be nice to each other.

I don't know what more anyone could ask from Mike and Marty than what they are doing now and what they're exposing themselves to daily.

They could have slinked off into the wildernes, never to be heard from again. The only people (in my opinion) who I have a good understanding of why they might hold onto some anger (or desire for these guys to do more) are those who were personally victimized by these people.

So, maybe you are one of those people?

Regarding the fact that you believe Marty has crimes where he belongs in prison, possibly murder, is there some cold case that the authorities are trying to solve that you have special knowledge about where Marty is the perpetrator?

It's already known that Marty obstructed justice in the McPherson case, he's admitted it and so far, no one is coming after him for this but he didn't "murder" Lisa. That's a huge accusation.





Ok, seems things are stuck on "murder". Kidnapping, extortion, false imprisoments are also serious crimes. I don't have any knowledge of specific crimes. But don't tell me there isn't enough smoke to at least SUSPECT a fire. The pattern of criminal behavior among scn execs is well known by many. Specific crimes would need investigation.

If you want to know what would satisfy me, this would do it: Marty Rathbun in the witness chair with David Miscavidge at the defense table. Regardless of the jury verdict, I would sing his praises to the heavens.
After watching the way that religions are so protected here in the US, I have recently come to the conclusion that they truly do have their own rules in a certain sense. I am going to say something that will piss some people off but the way I see it, other than those born into the cult (which, if I am not mistaken, you were born in, right?) there are no other 100% pure victims and I don't even think I can say that those born in, of course without consent, are 100% victims (but close enough).

The rest of us all quickly initialed our rights away and signed those enrollment and other agreements usually without even reading them. We trusted our cult. We all played on the field. Some people played fiercer games than others but we all agreed until we didn't agree anymore.

No, most of us didn't agree to all the shit OSA, RTC, INT MGMT were doing. We didn't know about it until we left but those who moved up the line started playing by different rules, LRH advices and Flag orders, etc. that the rank and file were never privy to. Once one got up in that stratosphere, imagine how much weirder it got and how much harder it got to leave. What a mind fuck.

Marty does not have a warrant out for his arrest, he has not been convicted of any crimes and is not a menace or danger to society. He's already living a certain hell. He will surely reap everything we sowed simply because he's actually allowing that to happen.

The pattern of criminal behavior by upper management is well documented. Specific crimes would need to be addressed. I don't know how many ways I can say I will forgive him. If you know what it will take, here it is: Marty in the witness chair with Miscavidge at the defense table.

If you know how the RICO statutes work, you know that in a corrupt organization, one can go to prison just for association. He would need a grant of immunity for his testimony which I would happily accede to. A prosecutor would have to understand that scn is a rackett and corrupt. These are the "R" and "C" in RICO.

There may be lesser things he could do to satisfy my sense of justice. The above is just one possibility.

And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did, aren't you being judgemental and self-righteous, as I was accused of? Just askin.

 

[SPsince83]

This is Bullshit, Veda, and you know it. The friendly warning was to two posters here who were flaming each other. Your spin/interpretation on that friendly warning is just odd.

I'm sorry moderator but I flamed no one. I politely asked him not to flame me and said I would ignore him if he did it again.

 

[Moderator 3]

That how I see it. I don't feel safe questioning or criticizing Marty on ESMB.

Your warnings predate these latest two warnings.

That's why I've decided to abstain from doing so on this forum at this time.

Seems odd to me but if that's how you feel, that's how you feel.

I don't understand your second sentence. :confused2:

For the record, the warning above had nothing to do with the subject matter (Marty) and everything to do with the Board Rules. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?2-Board-Rules

 

[Moderator 3]

I'm sorry moderator but I flamed no one. I politely asked him not to flame me and said I would ignore him if he did it again.

Oh alright, "By the power invested in me by the Church Of Holy Moderation I hereby forgive you for anything you didn't do here on ESMB".

 

[degraded being]

Hey, I was trying to be nice to you. I'll give you points for not being passive aggressive this time. Why won't you address the point? Yelling at someone and causing their death are different orders of magnitude. And while I have no specific information about people's activity beyond what the records say, the records lead one to believe he may be indeed guilty of crimes punishable by imprisonment. And in what world does anyone get a pass for these types of crimes without bribery or intimidation?

The fact remains, that his actions were reprehensible. Do you deny that? And if not, why do you disagree that he has waaaaaaaay more to answer for than the folder page at AOLA?

"Marty" goes together with "emotion" for some on this board.

If you discuss Marty, you will usually get a good dose of emotion.

 

[Gib]

The pattern of criminal behavior by upper management is well documented. Specific crimes would need to be addressed. I don't know how many ways I can say I will forgive him. If you know what it will take, here it is: Marty in the witness chair with Miscavidge at the defense table.

If you know how the RICO statutes work, you know that in a corrupt organization, one can go to prison just for association. He would need a grant of immunity for his testimony which I would happily accede to. A prosecutor would have to understand that scn is a rackett and corrupt. These are the "R" and "C" in RICO.

There may be lesser things he could do to satisfy my sense of justice. The above is just one possibility.

And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did

, aren't you being judgemental and self-righteous, as I was accused of? Just askin.

I'm a little confused:

And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did

What do we know the things he did?

 

[Veda]

Yes, a little snarky. I liked the post in terms of him wanting Marty to continue to spill the beans but I think that he's moving along that track already so no one is going to push that process along any faster by commenting on a message board I dare say.

I'm not pushing anything along.

I wrote, "When the time is right."

We really don't disagree much.

 

[SPsince83]

That how I see it. Currently, I don't feel safe questioning or criticizing Marty on ESMB.

Your warnings predate these latest two warnings.

That's why I've decided to abstain from questioning or criticizing Marty on this forum at this time.

I'm new here and didn't realize the Marty love was so strong in some. I just don't see that I said anything untrue. He likely committed crimes that are punishable by imprisonment if convicted. He did the same and worse to others as is being done to him. That is known colloquially as chickens coming home to roost, or the shoe's on the other foot or other cliches. He made his bed. He is trying to make amends and is doing a great job of it. He has a ways to go before I forgive him myself. What the hell is so unreasonable about that?

 

[Sindy]

The pattern of criminal behavior by upper management is well documented. Specific crimes would need to be addressed. I don't know how many ways I can say I will forgive him. If you know what it will take, here it is: Marty in the witness chair with Miscavidge at the defense table.

If you know how the RICO statutes work, you know that in a corrupt organization, one can go to prison just for association. He would need a grant of immunity for his testimony which I would happily accede to. A prosecutor would have to understand that scn is a rackett and corrupt. These are the "R" and "C" in RICO.

There may be lesser things he could do to satisfy my sense of justice. The above is just one possibility.

And if you judge me for not easily forgiving someone who did the things we all KNOW he did, aren't you being judgemental and self-righteous, as I was accused of? Just askin.

I like your post. I wasn't judging you. In regards to you specifically (as when I comment, I am normally commenting to all or else I would send a private message), I was mainly commenting on how you said that he belonged in jail. I was telling you why I don't think he does. I like your idea of his testifying against Miscavige and asking for immunity to do so.

If you think I was being self-righteous and judgmental, you're certainly entitled to think so.

Here you have, with emotional intelligence and discipline, further elucidated your point in a way that you were not doing before and I actually agree with you.

 

[Sindy]

I'm new here and didn't realize the Marty love was so strong in some. I just don't see that I said anything untrue. He likely committed crimes that are punishable by imprisonment if convicted. He did the same and worse to others as is being done to him. That is known colloquially as chickens coming home to roost, or the shoe's on the other foot or other cliches. He made his bed. He is trying to make amends and is doing a great job of it. He has a ways to go before I forgive him myself. What the hell is so unreasonable about that?

Oh for god's sake -- thanks Veda for creating a completely altered view of the reality here.

 

[SPsince83]

I'm a little confused:



What do we know the things he did?

See the RICO statutes. The pattern of corruption includes him. By virtue of his exalted position he would be guilty of all crimes committed by his subordinates. We know about the hole. Isn't that enough? Is he in no way culpable for false imprisonments? Again, in RICO he only needs to be a known leader of the rackett, which he was. If I were a federal prosecutor I would go after scn with RICO and give Marty immunity for testifying. How is my position unreasonable? Is all this bullshit just because I called Marty a motherfucker?

 

[Veda]

Oh for god's sake -- thanks Veda for creating a completely altered view of the reality here.

OK, so I guess it's alright for others to criticize Marty, cite his earlier misdeeds, and ask him sensitive questions.

I still won't be doing so, in the current atmosphere, because I don't want to get into trouble (and IMO there are more important issues), and I think Marty may start talking anyway given enough time.