"Old Timers" and OT Phenomenon

[guanoloco]

Here's a collection of phenomenon as described by various Old Timers and such. This will be all about wild OT abilities and session experiences.

One may either agree or disagree or argue or consider the whole thing as BS, however it is noteworthy.

...from L. RON HUBBARD THE MAN THAT I KNEW by Dennis Stevens:

I became group secretary and continued on as a group auditor and group secretary through 1950 –late 1950– and also 1951 and all the way through 1952 until the first contact with Ron Hubbard appears in September 1952.

-snip-

He did a technique of giving commands to my foot and receiving commands back, and turning a few energy masses white and so on –and so on. Next thing I told him that I was exteriorized and he said “good” and he moved me around the room. The tremendous perceptions that I was struck with -the weird sensation sitting there above sixty people, and I could see them all clearly below me. I was up near the ceiling where Ron had moved me. And there was Ron addressing my body. And I could see my body there and I could see Ron there. I could see the whole thing much, much clearer than I could through my eyes.


‘Ts was all happening and everyone was watching the demonstration and I was at the ceiling (chuckles). It was an incredible experience. And he moved me around and moved me out back to the road. I found that I could move through the wall and I could see through the wall. There’s all sorts of things that I can do. And he moved me around and got me comfortable and said “Do you want to come back into your body or stay outside”.

I said: “No thank you very much I’m quite happy out here”.


He Said: “Right well just – “ and got me– my eyes again [sentence fragmented].


And that ended the demonstration.


By that time it was getting up to ten o’clock and people had busses and trains to catch. It being Sunday the transport didn’t run very late at that time. And very quickly the group meeting broke up and I had to dash off to get a last bus. Getting off the bus from Auckland, I missed the last bus that connected up to my home. I had to walk a mile and a half along deserted roads to get to my house.


An incredible feeling of walking along being exterior from my body –my body was in front of me. This weird sensation of walking along and the body, in front of me, shadowing the street lights. As I walked along, suddenly as a street light appear in my visual field, on the right hand side, being shadowed by my head. It startled me for a moment –so I don’t realize what was going on and I moved further back behind my body.


The exteriorization was almost complete. It was an almost exteriorization you would get between lives as I later discovered. The exteriorization was incredibly complete. I just walked for a mile and a half down that road sitting about, oh, ten fifteen foot behind my body. I’m just moving down the road with my body there looking at the houses and I was walking in [?] my body. I was just walking along the road there. It was the most incredible experience.

Then I go into my house and went to bed –went up into the loft, nosed around from the roof and ended up, about midnight, sitting out on the lamp post in the road watching the moths fly around the lamp post.


I went to sleep. When I woke up in the morning I’ve moved –during the night– I’ve moved back into my body again (chuckle). But it saved my life. I then knew that when Ron spoke of exteriorization –talked about a thetan- that he was right. I had so much tremendous personal certainty on it, there was not a shred of doubt in my mind. And when he said then (at the group meeting) that he was gonna run a professional course, well that was where I wanted to be. I knew that what he was talking about was the goods and the one thing I wanted to be was a professional Scientologist. This was the future. This was how it was.


This enormous exteriorization ability –I was what they used to call at the time theta clear– stayed with me. It lessoned slowly but it stayed with me for a month. It had an interesting validation. I was already courting my future wife at the time.

---------

And later I was in London . She was in Battessey and we couldn’t be [together and] we were very much in love and I used to go and visit her late at night. She always knew I was there. I could [would] come in the room and there she would be laying on the bed reading. I’d go over and touch her forehead –I could see her look up. She knew I was there. The following day I’d phone or see her and she’d say “You were over last night” and I’d say “Yes I visit you”. She couldn’t do it of course she hadn’t got the ability but she always knew I was there. [A garbled sentence follows but could not be transcribed and was removed.].


So it wasn’t all in my mind there was a present time with another person who could validate the exteriorization ability that I had. The ability to be actually felt –my presence could actually be felt by another person in the present time universe– so it wasn’t all imagination. It had a practical validation there.

 

[Mystic]

Sounds like standard Scientology experiences, a clusterfuck of lower-level psychic experiences.

 

[guanoloco]

Here's some yap from Nibs in a Transcript from a 1984 Taped Interview:

Another important fact you should know is that Dad could not stand a terminal of comparable magnitude. If anyone got close to his power level he destroyed them. You will note (going clear back to 1950) that anyone who really, truly and honestly was Clear or OT (and there were quite a number of them, I mean real honest-to-God ones that truly were as defined in the early days, I'm talking about from 1952, summer thereof, through the middle fifties - that's where the actual definitions came from), that those people were literally, systematically, overtly, by postulate and decision, destroyed. All you have to do is ask your neighbor, your fellow ex-member or member as the case may be, to find these original Clears and OTs and ask them what happened to them. Take John McMaster. He was not, by the way, the first Clear. I find that most interesting, that's another destructive ploy. When these people would come up to the actual being Clear, they were announced as being the First Clear or the First OT or the First MEST Clear, and then, when their abilities were truly demonstrated and found workable (that is if they were out there doing what Clears really do and demonstrating what a Clear can really do), then they were quickly put into not-isness and gotten down into Traitor, Enemy or some other good stuff. Then after they were successfully destroyed, when another Clear would show up, then they were again the First Clear. But of course a Clear does not toe the mark; a Clear does not make a lie persist and a Clear becomes fast approaching a terminal of comparable magnitude to L. Ron Hubbard and then dear old Dad would destroy them. And you would find that a few weeks or months later another First Clear would show up. This ran on about a six-month cycle from the end of 1950 to date. One of the main problems Dad had with Clears is that Clears practised what they preached and Dad didn't. And Clears very quickly found out that Dad didn't. And that's the one thing that would cause instant destruction: the revelation of that one piece of data. You can't find one Clear or OT in 34 years that didn't get run over by a herd of L. Ron Hubbard elephants and didn't feel like they had been stuck in the Coliseum with a hundred raging tigers and lions. I mean they really got chewed up and spit out!

Most of my auditing, by the way, was received from L. Ron Hubbard, probably ninety percent of it. I went Clear and OT which of course started to cause problems because I started to demonstrate Clear and OT abilities which of course always was a no-no. And again you don't have to take my word for it, just ask anybody that went Clear or OT and find out what happened to them.

The best solution for them, many of them found out as I found out, was to cut and run. If you went OT and Clear, go find a foxhole out in the boondocks somewhere because you knew that L. Ron Hubbard would come and try to get you. And you were only as useful (when you went Clear and OT) as you had PR value, as long as you were willing to be the token Clear or the token OT as in the civil rights (before civil rights movement here in the United States) being the token Black. As long as you were willing to play the Uncle Tom role you were fine. The only problem with that was that a Clear and OT embodied the very precepts of Scientology: ARC, power, truth, justice and freedom of expression and just basically "Clearness", which didn't quite jibe with organizational practice. Plus they have the added dimension of a much higher degree and ability of perception and so, since L. Ron Hubbard had a great deal to hide, including the Magick tech, he was very fearful of that being perceived. That is, people would look behind the ridges and look behind the withhold. Of course in my own particular case, which is not terribly unique, besides being Clear and OT I also was his son and knew all of the real and true facts of his actual life and activities, which of course was a hundred and eighty degrees out. Plus I had the added dimension of his having taught me the Magick tech so I posed an even greater threat. That's why he pulled out all the stops and tried to stop and destroy me and to shut me up. But me being me, with the same abilities he taught me, made it kind of difficult and so I'm still here. I'm still walking and I'm still talking and so are a lot of other Clears and OTs and so are a lot of other people and staff.

One of the things that really drove Dad bananas and truly freaked him out was actual demonstration in his presence of Clear and OT ability. And he actually suppressed it for reasons I've already given you. Plus of course he thought and was afraid someone would somehow find the Magick doors. So therefore you will notice another trend over the last 34 years, and that is that the state of Clear and the state of OT has degenerated from a state of ability to a state of mind. That is, from a level of actually being able to do something down to a level of thinking you can do it. Which again is a hundred and eighty degrees out by design. And again for reasons already stated.

One of the sad things about all of this - in the OT levels and the theta Clear levels - is that they should be run while the pc is actually and really stably exterior. Many of these incidents and processes should only be run while the preclear is stably exterior. They were designed to be run only while outside the body not inside the body. But there again, when such things as financial factors took the front seat and it became expedient to run them both solo and with people still inside their bodies, that is one of the main reasons I say it's very dangerous and detrimental to run some of these things unless somebody is stably exterior. And make sure it isn't someone else's incident you're running out. Bodies are just plain not designed for high voltage and megawatts of power. But, you see, his opinion and idea of bodies was very low, particularly other people's bodies. He wasted bodies like popcorn, and that's the truth. Look at the hundreds of people that were close to him that were either rejected, disposed of, gotten rid of, or realized the truth and cut and run before it was too late. There are now at least a thousand people on the outside for every one person on the inside, when in truth and fact it should be the reverse.

 

[guanoloco]

From The good old days with Hubbard back in Scientology:

He had also long been interested in what made people tick, and he formulated a bunch of theories about that. He finally took the plunge, publishing in the May, 1950, Analog Science Fact / Science Fiction, an article entitled "Dianetics." His then wife later claimed that the sole research he actually did for the development of the "Modern Science of Mental Health" was a half hour with a couple of dictionaries developing a name for it.

Be that as it may, he apparently created out of whole cloth a philosophy, theory, and therapy which not only worked, but - for the common run of neurotics (90% of the population) - worked far better than conventional psychotherapy, and was light-years ahead of the Psychiatry of its day! (It was not so red hot on real psychotics, Hubbard's claims to the contrary notwithstanding, but it was absolutely marvelous as psychosomatic medicine!) It could, and did, cure every nameable disease which was not genetic in origin, and relieved those, to some extent - but not always; that was the stumbling block. I solved that problem, to the satisfaction of the field and the annoyance of the zealots; in a paper I published, I had this to say; "In order for a psychosomatic disease to exist, there must, somewhere, be a real disease for it to imitate. While with Dianetic processes you can aid the pre-clear in eliminating or ameliorating the former, there is little that can be done about the latter." That statement, true though it may have been, did not increase my popularity among the "All disease is psychosomatic" set, but I didn't care; my point was that if ALL disease was psychosomatic, why did animals get sick?

Thus Hubbard got his first shock; something which had either been designed as a spoof or a con, (I believe the former; most everyone else of my acquaintances believes the latter), not only worked, but worked as he - the inventor - SAID it would work! So, whether he had intended it or not, he was stuck with writing "The Book." Again, his wife claimed it was entirely fiction; but fiction or not, it got a lot of people started, and a lot of people got a lot saner practically overnight. Neuroses vanished; people got well from an astounding array of diseases. A friend of ours whose back was completely ankylosed into a question mark, so that he had to walk with two canes, after fifteen hours with my father straightened up and went back to leading a dance band. An M.D. we knew lost his peripheral neuritis, endocarditis, and diabetes! (He gave himself a routine injection of Insulin, went into shock, and nearly died before he could eat a candy bar!) His hair, which had been snow white for over ten years, came back in as a honey blond. Speaking of hair, I worked with a man who was egg bald. After ten hours, he had a tonsure, and after thirty nearly a full head of hair. Harrison Angel had a mouth full of bad teeth, so he had them all pulled and grew a new set, using techniques he had developed from Dianetic theory; the new set came in crooked, so he had them pulled and grew another set, this time doing it right! A friend of my wife's had been born with a deformed toe. During one of her sessions, the crooked toe straightened out!

But Miracles, in the early days, were commonplace. Never in the History of Mankind had so many fine minds been allied in an effort to help others, with a believable framework on which to hang their efforts. It was all very chivalrous and idealistic in those days.

I hope this does you some good; please tell me, if so. If you need more, or if you enjoyed this abbreviated presentation, again, let me know. Obviously, I have only scratched the surface of what I know, and I was not privy to much of what was going on; I do, however, feel that much of the criticism of what Scn has become is based upon fragmentary knowledge, and that if people - including Scientologists - knew some of the background, it might become a valid religion. As A.E. van Vogt said, "There are phenomena in Scientology which bear investigating."

Phenomena? You'd better believe it! But that's an area I don't want to enter. Let someone else tell you about that.

 

[guanoloco]

Sounds like standard Scientology experiences, a clusterfuck of lower-level psychic experiences.

I think you're right, Mystic.

It wasn't until after Scientology that I learned about the febrile Siddhis and their temporary states...oh, and the fact that these exalted OT abilities are a trap in and of themselves as some more sincere spiritual seekers view them.

They are apparently a distraction and NOT a means unto themselves.

This seems to bear out in the Otto J. Roos Story:

"Just finding LRH" in the middle of the night was not a surprise for people around at the time, who still remember the early AO Magazine. There had been a lot of research on OT ABILITIES, started back in '66 in SH. John Mc had levitated (and broken his toe), if I remember well and some of the "wild catting" results had been published by LRH in the Mag. Teleportation, changing the body's location without physical means, messing around with the later (old) OT 7 abilities, exteriorization from the Mest Universe procedures (done by him on me for the 1st time on my Clear, i.e. John Mc's "Pope" day), and such goodies, like floating, projection, etc. Wildly uncontrolled but of great interest as it showed the potential abilities of a thetan and what one day we would be able to control knowingly. My body had been seen in both Jo'burg and New York, as well as SH, while it was on Flag, some people suddenly arrived at Flag as I had, so they said, "called" them.

Apparently I must have used the same "tech" to find the Apollo, after leaving to find the Klingvalls. (Page 17, para 5)

Interesting trials, these things, and he wanted them published.

Based on tbe same principles he appointed Quentin and me "skull watchers".

LRH himself was a lot into this stuff. Once, when I was OOD (Officer of the Deck) under Conning Officer...(name known) and the ship was on a collision course, I continued to tell the Conn, but he just stood there and did not react or do anything about it. I logged it in the watch book and finally decided to go wake LRH (a very dangerous job indeed!) to, as Captain, overrule the Con [sic] and take command. Before I could go, he came suddenly rushing up the Bridge, in his pajamas [sic], grabbed the wheel and started bellowing at the Con. The Con still did not react, so LRH saved the ship (and also started the Drug research, as the Con was "loaded"). So, although asleep, he perceived this ship's being there, also that the Con was "absent", etc. as he handled the situation bang on!

On the other hand he also, years later, published something on XII pc's and how they never left the ship, when he was C/S, without their being "exterior with full perception", which was a definite untruth. Not that some didn't, but he implied all of them to having achieved this state. (He in fact created more hidden standards about this subject than anything, of which some data, as per his own research folders wasn't true, or rather, like our wild catting of OT abilities, was quite uncontrolled, also by himself!)

I don't know what to make of all this stuff.

I have witnessed and experienced some wild stuff myself. I don't know if it's the result of hypnotism or factual.

Most has been subjective but some tiny bit has been objective.

Most has been behavioral but some tiny bit has been physical.

Had I not witnessed the various things I have witnessed I doubt that I would ever have believed that they occurred.

Of a final note, these things don't just randomly and occasionally occur within Scientology but seem to be regularly experienced by many.

 

[Mystic]

Mr. Roos was not known for being particularly "sane".

 

[GoNuclear]

It seems like all the really cool stuff happens at the very start of a religion. Of course, that is another reason why folks should order my "MAKING BIG MONEY IN THE CULT BUSINESS" TV offer success kit for only $39.95, but ya GOTTA CALL NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Operators are standing by!

Pete

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Hmm.. Aren't these supernatural adventures usually reported as having happened with Hubbard present, in the same room?

Hubbard was actually a 'gifted' hypnotist.. No joking either, he was! - I've read that he could move clouds with his 'intention' too.. Reported by an impressed 'observer' and believed to be true.

Derren Brown and David Copperfield could fool you that way too..

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

There was an old success story in one of the early ao mags where Otto described looking through the steel walls of the RSM. Kinda trippy. Mimsey

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

The first post made mention of LRH "He did a technique of giving commands to my foot and receiving commands back, and turning a few energy masses white and so on –and so on."

I grew up with watching someone giving commands to a hand and receiving communication back. Also this person could communicate with boxed masses and receive communication back.

In fact, here it is:

http://youtu.be/5AaIDmiFXmo

Alright? Alright!

Is good? Is good!

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Div6]

Hmm.. Aren't these supernatural adventures usually reported as having happened with Hubbard present, in the same room?

Hubbard was actually a 'gifted' hypnotist.. No joking either, he was! - I've read that he could move clouds with his 'intention' too.. Reported by an impressed 'observer' and believed to be true.

Derren Brown and David Copperfield could fool you that way too..

Uhhh.....no. Most are reported as occurring either during or after auditing sessions.

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Uhhh.....no. Most are reported as occurring either during or after auditing sessions.

Yeh.. The 'Tech' is superior to Deren Brown and David Copperfield in that way..

My kind of skeptism still put this down to some 'mental phenomena' created by expectations and 'hypnotic' effects of believeing in all the OT stuff.. Not real..

 

[guanoloco]

The first post made mention of LRH "He did a technique of giving commands to my foot and receiving commands back, and turning a few energy masses white and so on –and so on."

I grew up with watching someone giving commands to a hand and receiving communication back. Also this person could communicate with boxed masses and receive communication back.

In fact, here it is:

http://youtu.be/5AaIDmiFXmo

Alright? Alright!

Is good? Is good!

The Anabaptist Jacques

I remember these, too...'salright! Wasn't that from the mailbox or something? Seems I remember one of the puppets being a mailbox that said 'salright! all of the time...

 

[GoNuclear]

Hmm.. Aren't these supernatural adventures usually reported as having happened with Hubbard present, in the same room?

Hubbard was actually a 'gifted' hypnotist.. No joking either, he was! - I've read that he could move clouds with his 'intention' too.. Reported by an impressed 'observer' and believed to be true.

Derren Brown and David Copperfield could fool you that way too..

I'm sure that the HubTurd always intended to move the phuggen clouds in the direction that the wind was taking them.

Pete

 

[Rene Descartes]

My favorite OT phenomena stories are those where the OT is driving a car and he is 300 miles away from his destination but he only has 20 minutes to get there.

"Time is merely a consideration."

Rd00

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Sounds like standard Scientology experiences, a clusterfuck of lower-level psychic experiences.

sure they're lower level to you

you're a texan

for most people these are fancy onions

 

[Challenge]

sure they're lower level to you

you're a texan

for most people these are fancy onions

look out now, with your insults to Texans.
We'll setcho ass on fire!

 

[The_Fixer]

^^^^^ :smoking:

 

[Lout Zoo]

Here's a collection of phenomenon as described by various Old Timers and such. This will be all about wild OT abilities and session experiences.

One may either agree or disagree or argue or consider the whole thing as BS, however it is noteworthy.

...from L. RON HUBBARD THE MAN THAT I KNEW by Dennis Stevens:

I guess I fall into the "Old Timer" status, sort of. I just thought I'd throw in my two cents here. When I first got into Scientology in 1974 I was most interested in OT phenomena. I had some minor phenomena early on, just going exterior is probably the most basic one. I found it problematic as I did not have great visual perception exterior, so it was easy to invalidate. It wasn't until I had my exteriorization validated objectively that I was able to even be certain myself. Back in the early seventies we were doing TR's at the beginning of course each day in the Academy. I sat down to do a few minutes of OT TR0 with my friend, Jim Reckers (OT VII "old"). He suggested we have a game for the drill, to be 18 feet back of our heads. I was a little confused and said "Why 18, why not 3?" He said, "Why not 18?" So we sat down and started. I had some ability then and I could perceive he went directly back to 18 feet back of his head. I struggled with some difficulty and finally got there. The instant I got there he said: "That's it!" to validate me. Actually it upset me a little as I wasn't quite ready to say I was done. In auditing terms he didn't quite give me time for the F/N to widen

Another incident occured when I was talking to a girl that was on course in the Academy who was pregnant. I was looking at her belly with the intention to determine whether she was going to have a boy or a girl. I didn't realize it at the time but I put out a beam to "see" with. There was a thetan following her around who was up and behind her. He put out the communication "That's my body!" I looked up and said "Okay. I have a body." He seemed mollified. I told her what happened. The next day I was sitting in the course room when she walked up. I asked "Where is the thetan that has been following you around?" I instantly perceived him at the top of the column behind her. She started to move her head from side to side as if "looking" I saw an impulse come from the thetan. (An impulse looks like a ripple on water, but three dimensional. Kinda like a puff of air} I thought: "What's that!?" I instantly got the message, (it was a communication from him to her) "I'm right here!" The tone level of the communication was similar to a young child happily proclaiming something neat, or cool. The impulse continued to her. The instant it touched her head she turned around and pointed right at him and said: "Oh, he's right there".

I have had many more experiences that were solely subjective and so are easier to invalidate to myself. It was strange to me that when I first was having these things happen that I even had a hard time remembering them sometimes. It wasn't until I had had many experiences that it became real to me. I now understandy why. When you look at the awareness characteristics you go from communication, orientation, understandings (PLURAL!!!!) then enlightenment. So don't be too concerned if it isn't real to you. It doesn't bother me if you think I am making this up. I know what is real for me. In your universe you may have to believe it is all bull shit. I have observed what I have observed. Some of you out there will possibly rekindle a bit of hope that you can someday do these things. Good. I tell you you can. If you can't get in ARC with something by Communicating it will never be real to you and you will never understand it. This can apply to things you actually observe yourself. One observation is not enough! I wasn't going to tell this next story because it is too incredible for most but it actually shows what happens when you do an OT phenomena in front of others.

I was in the U.S. Navy at the time. We were in port in Hong Kong. I was walking down the street in Hong Kong talking to a friend of mine about the cycle of action, apparent (
Start, Change, Stop) and true (Create,Create,Create; Create-Counter-Create; No Creation) I explained that this give one a different way of handling things. Say someone shot a bullet at you. The usual belief of an OT handling of this would be to destroy the bullet, bend it out of the way or in other words use force on it. But if you use the true cycle of action you could just stop creating your body and then after the bullet went by, start creating it again. My friend was struggling with the idea but it looked like he had the concept but couldn't quite accept it. So I said: "Blane, (his name) WATCH THIS!" I extended both my arms (I looked down and to the side at my right arm) and I disappeard for about a millisecond. Blane, when I told him to looked right at me. When I disappeared he put his hands over his face and stood there in shock. It took me about fifteen minutes to get a word out of him. I kept asking him: "Blane, what did you see?" Eventually he looked up and said: "You blinked!" I said "Okay". I did not know what he meant by that at that time. Later that night we were back on the ship in the radar room (where I worked) talking about it and he said: "Do it again!" I said I only did things like that on the spur of the moment and could't do it at will. He insisted so I tried to do it again. He said: "You did it!" I was a little disappointed as this time I my body didn't disappear, it went totally black for an instant. I didn't argue with him. About six months later we talked about it and he could only remember when I did it on the ship. He insisted I didn't do it in Hong Kong. I got out of the Navy soon after and didn't see him for about a year. I ended up in Norfolk Virgina working as a civilian on some Saudi Arabian navy ships and he was transferred to Norfolk. We got together and one night and started talking about the event in Hong Kong. Some of his friends were there and he told them I went totally black. That is what I saw the second time on the ship. I never told anyone what I saw. He still insisted nothing happened in Hong Kong. A few weeks later I approached him and without any introduction I said: Blane, do you remember the time we were walking down the street in Hong Kong and there was a red roofed restaurant? (That was where the first incident occured). He said, somewhat sheepishly, "yeah..." and then volunteered: "But I can't see the picture!" I said: Recall something that happened before it" he said "yeah". I said, "Okay, now recall something that happened after it". He exclaimed: That's why I couldn't remember! YOU WERE GONE! A few weeks later I asked him about it again and he had forgotten it again. I never bothered him with it again. It was clearly out of his reality. Some time later I learned that from some science fiction game of some sort he had the word "blinked" defined as a soft of teleportation.

So for all of you out there that have had OT experiences, it is okay with me!

This is all true to the best of my recollection.

 

[RogerB]

Lout Zoo,

Presumably, you've now learned the lesson that one needs to be gentle with the local natives?

They are a little fragile with the wonderful propensity of being able to occlude whatever exceeds or violates their reality Poor things

R