Scientology, why your days are numbered....

[Out4long]

Oh, you mean The Rolling Stones released 'Honky Tonk Woman'?

 

[Gizmo]

When it comes to " free communication " I remarked to my spouse that now some quarter a century out of the cult we have started to talk about some things to one another that we never talked about before.....like we both thought ot3 was utter bullshit.

HH got it right that it is the 'net that is bringing death to the cult. "Unfriending" somebody on facebook is utter stupidity. It has crept ovet to where public cult members clain they have 'disconnected" from so & so but in reality stay very much in touch with so & so.

I also find the pre & post Lisa interesting as there comes a point if one gets any information whatsoever it is hard to hold onto anything about that other than she was murdered. Your "church" absolutely WILL murder people.... YIKES !

Or Hubbard died pumped full of what ?

Just too much information on the 'net to suppress it all so before our very eyes we are seeing communication slowly & painfully choke the "church" to death.

Was Jim Jones kinder to his true believers?

 

[gbuck]

there was also loads of civil conduct then; in truth it was more the norm then than now. but the church was far more a fixture of the mainstream then. outside the umbrella of the church, out where men didn't have the authority of the clergy and "the community" (both of which are rather smothering) there was still a line but it was two feet to the left

and i do not whitewash hubbard. i never met him and i'm glad i didn't. hearsay, exageration, outright lies, effeminate gossip is the stuff of the sewer. especially pernicious is the attempt to invalidate the subject by a personal condemnation of lrh. if you would actually read my writing you would know my bright beautiful brilliant first born son suffered a wrongful death of which i was not even informed until four years later in large part because of bad conduct by his uncle greg wilhere, for decades one of the top half dozen CoS execs personally trained on the apollo by ron himself applying the wrong pl's to me and that i have also, apparently and evidently though unprovably, suffered such extreme duress from being fair-gamed and dead-agented that i have twice been pushed to attempt suicide

these things notwithastanding i am still an auditor well aware of the profound benefit which can be produced with the lrh/csi materials

just as i weep with cherokee choctaw and cree upon the trail of tears yet love the nation that ordered them to it...

......................................in reality there is no nation.....imo.........just the idea of a nation...............you love your idea, that's cool.....imo

 

[gbuck]

YES!!!!!!

there was the imminent threat of The Bomb...

indeed it is in late 1949 that the soviet union detonates it's first device and in early 1950 dmsmh sets it's crosshairs on the nuclear threat. the cold war was the fire in the boiler for the project when we young...

............how convenient for ron............

 

[Out4long]

and i do not whitewash hubbard. i never met him and i'm glad i didn't. hearsay, exageration, outright lies, effeminate gossip is the stuff of the sewer. especially pernicious is the attempt to invalidate the subject by a personal condemnation of lrh.

Why would someone do that when ANY sane person can plainly see the COMPLETE lack of objective results, contrary to ElCon's written claims? I mean at THIS point in time a person would have to be on a full gram of LSD or, pretty nuts to NOT notice that he was lying, con artist about every major claim he made for the subject.

 

[uniquemand]

Why would someone do that when ANY sane person can plainly see the COMPLETE lack of objective results, contrary to ElCon's written claims? I mean at THIS point in time a person would have to be on a full gram of LSD or, pretty nuts to NOT notice that he was lying, con artist about every major claim he made for the subject.

Well, that is the trick. There is not a complete lack of results, but you are right that they do not conform to Hubbard's inflated and hyperbolic claims. Furthermore, the objectives of Scientology are, IMO, completely absurd, which would mean that NO method could achieve them. Even if they had created a space-age psychology and the e-meter did everything claimed, and everyone got the auditing that the Church states is necessary to "get there", they wouldn't. That being said, I would invite anyone doubting the efficacy of "Book One" to give it a shot, one on one with a friend, with no particular training, no additional goals for "processing" after those sessions. You may not get anywhere. The whole reason I got involved was because after my FIRST session I was aware of changes, and so was the person I "twinned with", on my own in my bedroom after work one night. I was never particularly interested in the super power offers (they were interesting but "unreal" to me), nor was I necessarily convinced in the existence of "Clears", but there was no doubt in my mind then, or now, that the method was effective at reducing the effects of past trauma.

 

[Out4long]

Well, that is the trick. There is not a complete lack of results,

There is a COMPLETE lack of VERIFIABLE, objective results about the major stuff (Clear & OT). The rest isn't anything major and can also be accomplished by other "mundane" means such as jogging, meditation, et al.

But, I get what you are saying totally.

BTW, after being in a position to examine cases, Book 1 doesn't produce ANY predictable or lasting, objective results. Most likely because "engrams" don't exist. Pls see http://www.blindness.org/blog/index.php/the-power-of-suggestion-challenges-of-the-placebo-effect/ for more info.

Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary proof..

 

[gbuck]

.

Something struck me today. There is no SCIENTOLOGY.


There are scientologists. Stuck in a pyramid type structure.


There are books,tapes,videos, buildings, and a boat.


There’s a shitload of dosh somewhere.

 

[uniquemand]

There is a COMPLETE lack of VERIFIABLE, objective results about the major stuff (Clear & OT). The rest isn't anything major and can also be accomplished by other "mundane" means such as jogging, meditation, et al.

But, I get what you are saying totally.

BTW, after being in a position to examine cases, Book 1 doesn't produce ANY predictable or lasting, objective results. Most likely because "engrams" don't exist. Pls see http://www.blindness.org/blog/index.php/the-power-of-suggestion-challenges-of-the-placebo-effect/ for more info.

Extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary proof..

It's true that there aren't studies directly on Book One other than the one that was testing for stuff related to eidetic memory back in the 60's, I think? However, much as my colleagues in metapsychology might not like me discussing this, here, it's true the TIR (traumatic incident reduction), the steps of which are identical to the steps of Dianetics, HAS been scientifically tested, and DOES have objectively provable long-term beneficial effects in resolving the symptoms of PTSD. I can provide documentation of this, but it's why SAMHSA approved it as an intervention in 2012 or so. (http://www.tir-nrepp.org/)

I'm happy to share the steps of TIR here, or you can take my word on it that it's identical to Book One, though no "Clear" is sought or expected by this process.

 

[Out4long]

It's true that there aren't studies directly on Book One other than the one that was testing for stuff related to eidetic memory back in the 60's, I think? However, much as my colleagues in metapsychology might not like me discussing this, here, it's true the TIR (traumatic incident reduction), the steps of which are identical to the steps of Dianetics, HAS been scientifically tested, and DOES have objectively provable long-term beneficial effects in resolving the symptoms of PTSD. I can provide documentation of this, but it's why SAMHSA approved it as an intervention in 2012 or so. (http://www.tir-nrepp.org/)

I'm happy to share the steps of TIR here, or you can take my word on it that it's identical to Book One, though no "Clear" is sought or expected by this process.

MANY things have been "scientifically tested". It requires several different groups testing and attempting to falsify before scientific pronouncements can be made. Give me a link to 4 or 5 of them.

 

[uniquemand]

MANY things have been "scientifically tested". It requires several different groups testing and attempting to falsify before scientific pronouncements can be made. Give me a link to 4 or 5 of them.

No. You can do your own research. There's a reason that SAMHSA accepted the intervention. You can quiz them if you like. However, it's no longer true that this method hasn't been scientifically examined, tested and verified. It IS true that the claims Hubbard made for it are complete bullshit.

 

[Out4long]

No. You can do your own research.

Why? I'm not making the claims of something working. The one making the claim has the onus of providing info required by the scientific method.

Get back to me AFTER you get your Graduate science degree. NOT before then.

 

[uniquemand]

Why? I'm not making the claims of something working. The one making the claim has the onus of providing info required by the scientific method.

I already did that. You don't like what I provided?

There are lots of links talking about the efficacy of TIR. You can find them. I provided an authoritative link, you want others, you find 'em!

 

[uniquemand]

Here's another for you, though. The rest will be on you. http://www.sagepub.com/prsw/overviews/pdfs/Valentine_Article.pdf

 

[Out4long]

Here's another for you, though. The rest will be on you. http://www.sagepub.com/prsw/overviews/pdfs/Valentine_Article.pdf

"Although the research designs did not allow conclusions about the efficacy of the interventive protocol,"

Um, this is why I advised that you get a proper education in science. What you linked is NOT a scientific study that showed the correctness of theory (in scientific terms). If you were a trained scientist you would have noted it before reading for more than a minute or two and wouldn't have given it as a link at all.

 

[uniquemand]

"Although the research designs did not allow conclusions about the efficacy of the interventive protocol,"

Um, this is why I advised that you get a proper education in science. What you linked is NOT a scientific study that showed the correctness of theory (in scientific terms). If you were a trained scientist you would have noted it before reading for more than a minute or two and wouldn't have given it as a link at all.

My education is fine. This is a registry of accepted interventions. You can draw whatever conclusions you would like from that.

 

[Gib]

.

Something struck me today. There is no SCIENTOLOGY.


There are scientologists. Stuck in a pyramid type structure.


There are books,tapes,videos, buildings, and a boat.


There’s a shitload of dosh somewhere.

correct. Scientology is just a name that means knowing how to know. It's a shore story. There is no Scientology, but IMHO it is actually called Hubbardology, it's real name.

Sure there is a structure called Church of Scientology of Denver, of Denmard, etc.

But what do the staff actually practice, they practice Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin's (HCOB's) and administer Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter (HCO PL).

You know, smash his name into history. How come them thar HCOPL's & HCOB's are not called SCOPL's & SCOB's?

 

[lotus]

.

Something struck me today. There is no SCIENTOLOGY.


There are scientologists. Stuck in a pyramid type structure.


There are books,tapes,videos, buildings, and a boat.


There’s a shitload of dosh somewhere.

The same strucked me a few years ago!

$cientology, is a bookstore
featuring the unprecedented small bookstore leader lost in a huge plastic decor of unprecedented order of magnitude huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge plastic books mockups

and fundraising ponzi scheme to build up an unprecedented estate asset for the guys at the top of the pyramid - Ideal Orgs

While on the never-ending process of giving away all your possessions and money - you are given one of the many bowling trophies, being part of a superb memorable black tie ceremony , featuring the leader of the organization which always appears very much happy about unprecedented order of magnitude of such ''donations''
IAS

When there is no money anymore - there is no candy anymore
and your are expected to 8c yourself in one of the labour camp
for the next billion years! Sea Arg!

​

$cientology is the designation of this ponzi scheme

 

[Claire Swazey]

Good points, all. Frankly, I'm amazed Cof$ is still around.

 

[lotus]

The day there will be no more people to promote it's destroying tek and bring people in - this day $camology will be on a respirator!

No more parishionners, no new money in, no religious cloak, no tenant, no slave labour force, no experience in managing such estate asset with staff on a payroll - paying taxes - maintenance - establishing good wog practices in office rental with commercial tenant ....

Soon or later it will collapse - the premises on what it expanded are the one of a ponzi sheme and it can't go on forever in expansion. ( + adding with an unprecendented order of magnitude amount of criminal\civil suits to face and resolve...)