LRH Insane

[OHTEEATE]

care of the body

when my Dad passed away, he got in comm with his wife, and asked that pants be put on the corpse, as there was a one week wait before cremation. It was embarrasing to him to have his nude body lying around, even in the dark in a cold locker. So, I made a trip to the nursing home, gathered up his pants and other personal effects, and made a half hour trip to Roseville to get his pants to the mortuary. The girl took them as matter of factly as if it happens all the time. I think autopsy is mostly a consideration of whether or not the person thinks it's appropriate. If the cause of death is in question, it's likely to be required by law. I like the Hindu custom of cremation within 24 hours. There is some factor of the pre-OT case being released sooner that makes that desirable. Also they smash the skull if it is still intact after cremation. Makes sense to make damn sure the guy can get out.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I guess the guy would be stuck if he thought he was stuck.

My dad actually sent me a message after he died about what he wanted on his tombstone. It was a phrase I'd never heard him used but which sounded like him. Later, when I told friends, they said "oh, he used to say that all the time."

 

[Voltaire's Child]

My impression was that DM and Starkey claimed that autopsies are against the Scn religion, not just that LRH wouldn't have wanted it...

 

[Martini]

His writings helped me at a time when I needed guidance.

The processing brought me out of a fog and into present time, much more than I was. I feel more "here."

I am a wiser, saner person. I am also more confident, more outgoing, more ethical and basically more who I am.

I am thankful for these things.

I am also disappointed that the road did not lead fully out.

And I suspect that was ultimately what drove him to his later insane years - his journey on the road to truth took some wrong turns and he went mad.

 

[svonhatten]

My impression was that DM and Starkey claimed that autopsies are against the Scn religion, not just that LRH wouldn't have wanted it...

Hmph... Convenient.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

There musta been a whoooole lotta money at stake.

 

[Lulu Belle]

LRH would care if he still had a Rosicrucian viewpoint. I make no apology for repeating this. Basically due to the myriad of contradictions in his character, we have no idea what LRH really believed. All we know is what he said in his writings and tapes. We have to compare what he said with what he did and then you see masses of contradictions!

To give another example, he wrote about dedication, this not being some patty-cake dillitante occupation, yet he spent whole swathes of his life not working directly to clear the planet, chasing buried gold, living in secret off-lines in motels, taking photgraphs, etc.

He failed to apply Scn tech basics to himself and in his dealings with others.

I would go so far as to say he wasn't a Scientologist, as defined by his written and recorded words.

So who knows what he thought about the body post-death?

I agree.

And considering what an egomaniac he was, my guess is that he would have preferred to be embalmed in a pyramid built especially for him rather than getting cremated. With his hundreds of slaves buried with him.

 

[Veda]

His writings helped me at a time when I needed guidance.

The processing brought me out of a fog and into present time, much more than I was. I feel more "here."

I am a wiser, saner person. I am also more confident, more outgoing, more ethical and basically more who I am.

I am thankful for these things.

I am also disappointed that the road did not lead fully out.

And I suspect that was ultimately what drove him to his later insane years - his journey on the road to truth took some wrong turns and he went mad.

That's what people sometimes believe - until they take a closer look.

And some people don't want to take a closer look.

Hubbard was not the fallen hero, who went mad in his efforts to find truth and save Mankind.

It wasn't, primarily, about "truth," or "saving Mankind."

Not a bad slogan though: "L. Ron Hubbard went insane for our aberrations."

And, if believed, it allows the L. Ron Hubbard fan club to still hold on to those who think that Hubbard failed on his mission.

But did he fail?

In August 1938, while describing his unpublished work, 'Excalibur', Hubbard wrote:

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned. It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt. And all this boils and froths inside my head..."

Sounds as though he may have succeeded.

That doesn't necessarily devalue what is best in Dianetics and Scientology. It just puts it in perspective, with regard to the Hubbardian scheme-of-things.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Oh, there are many indications that Hubbard was venal and self interested.

I believe them, too.

But I also believe he did believe Dn and Scn would work and help people.

He was obviously a conflicted man with conflicting objectives.

He's dead. He's not here.

So what we're left with is Scn itself. We can see if it does anything and which parts of it have which effects. That's really the bottom line.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

"I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form... That goal is the real goal as far as I am concerned. It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt. And all this boils and froths inside my head..."

Sounds as though he may have succeeded.

GREAT NAMES OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY:

HUBBARD
HITLER (Well Schicklegruber just doesn't sound right.)

 

[MarkWI]

Pool on LRH reputation

I just found a new pool about LRH here.

 

[Krysti]

But I also believe he did believe Dn and Scn would work and help people.

He was obviously a conflicted man with conflicting objectives.

I could see that, Fluffy. I do believe Hubbard was schizophrenic which has many similarities to bipolar. Being at my worst when I was delusional, I had so many thoughts racing through my head I couldn't keep them straight. Some were self-serving and some were not

I could imagine at times Hubbard was out to save the world, at times he just wanted to become rich and famous... at times he came up with great ideas, at times he came up with insane ideas...

I don't believe it is black and white. It's sad to me that some people can't or won't see that.

Krysti

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I could see that, Fluffy. I do believe Hubbard was schizophrenic which has many similarities to bipolar. Being at my worst when I was delusional, I had so many thoughts racing through my head I couldn't keep them straight. Some were self-serving and some were not

I could imagine at times Hubbard was out to save the world, at times he just wanted to become rich and famous... at times he came up with great ideas, at times he came up with insane ideas...

I don't believe it is black and white. It's sad to me that some people can't or won't see that.

Krysti

I think he had cocked up so many things in the past, i.e., he himself was a PTS. Reading the outside histories reveal that almost everything he put his hand to was a disaster. So when he had some success with Dn maybe he became blinded by his own success. I don't believe he was altruistic, but I think toward the end he even believed his own PR which is the most dangerous mistake for anyone.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I could see that, Fluffy. I do believe Hubbard was schizophrenic which has many similarities to bipolar. Being at my worst when I was delusional, I had so many thoughts racing through my head I couldn't keep them straight. Some were self-serving and some were not

I could imagine at times Hubbard was out to save the world, at times he just wanted to become rich and famous... at times he came up with great ideas, at times he came up with insane ideas...

I don't believe it is black and white. It's sad to me that some people can't or won't see that.

Krysti

Yes, that's pretty much the same point of view as mine.

How do I know that Dianetics and Scientology auditing and word clearing are helpful? Because they've helped me, they've helped my husband, they've helped many people we know and have known.

My saying this- in fact, times when I didn't even say it at all but merely identified myself as still having some interest in Scn- has earned me a lot more flak over the years and forums than I'd ever dreamed possible.

But it's true and I will stand by it.

People have countered my saying I'm a non CofS Scientologist with the fruit of the poisoned tree argument. However, ideologies aren't botany.
So yes, I know that Hubbard did some bad stuff- a lot of it. And I do think he really lost it. I think Royal Prince Xenu's post is correct. (Hi, RPX!)

But I am not going to negate what I've seen and experienced.

 

[Vinaire]

LRH was an identity. It was what it was.

What was behind that identity is ultimately the same source as what is behind our identities. The minds are however different.

One does not have to accept or reject LRH's mind or the output from that mind.

But one may study that mind and its output, and decide to use some parts and reject other parts.

It is your choice.

.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

We all are identities and we change greatly from lifetime to lifetime.

It has been said that LRH worked on Scn and things like it for many lifetimes. I happen to believe that.

However, in this lifetime, a Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, he appears to have been greedy and self interested from the beginning.

This is something that will come back to bite him, karma-wise or overt/motivator sequence- wise. It already has. It will continue to do so until he takes responsibility for it.

Identities and personalities change greatly from lifetime to lifetime. This I know for a fact.

But you still take your track with you and you still do yourself in due to past overts. The mechanisms are definitely there.

As I said in another thread, I'm not letting LRH off the hook. I'm just not. I'd like to thank him a million times for the good he did, but I'd like to scold him just as many times for the bad stuff he did.

As I've said a few times before, I really really recommend the book Dianetics In Limbo...

 

[haiqu]

Steve,

I take it the 'psychiatric medications' you refer to are the Vistaril which was reportedly in LRH's blood post-mortem. There were injection marks on his buttocks, so it was not self-administered.
If you google Vistaril, you are likely to find that it may be prescribed for anxiety, nausea or even itching. It is not an anti-psychotic, it's an antihistamine with little potential for abuse. I don't imagine it was administered for itching. But nausea and anxiety can be sequelae of a head injury or stroke. According to what I've read the man under discussion suffered a stroke eight days before his death. So the Vistaril use does make sense. A stroke patient who vomits and inhales the vomitus is a goner. That's why it's important to handle nausea in such a patient.
To call Vistaril a psychiatric medication really does not make a lot of sense, unless you are trying to imply that the user was a psychiatric patient, or should have been.

Thanks for clearing up yet another piece of misinformation. As a matter of fact, the drug is openly sold and advertised on TV as an allergy treatment under the name Zyrtec here in Australia.

haiqu

 

[haiqu]

I think the story goes- or one of the stories- is that he encountered Incident II in auditing someone- possibly John McMaster- started playing around with it and got convinced that it's an implant everyone has.

I do believe in implants, but I don't think everyone has all the ones LRH said they did.

I understand the concept of ending up on this planet as a human all going back to one root experience, I do. And that could well be the case.

It's just that I know of people who've said that they don't have the Incident II implant and thus did not run on OTIII.


So I ask you this: "What if they gave an implant and nobody came?"

The only way one could not have had Inc II on their case is by not having been in this sector of the galaxy 75 million years ago, AND not having collided with (in a cluster-making sense) anyone else from this sector since that time.

Highly unlikely. More usually, badly set up in lower materials and/or unable to confront.

haiqu

 

[Veda]

Thanks for clearing up yet another piece of misinformation. As a matter of fact, the drug is openly sold and advertised on TV as an allergy treatment under the name Zyrtec here in Australia.

haiqu

Hubbard was a druggie for most of his adult life.

When he died in hiding, his followers were told that he had been in "good health" and that he had "causatively discarded the body."

There are mixed opinions as to how Vistaril should be classified. IMO, the term "sedative" is more appropriate that the term, "anti-psychotic," but this was 1986, and the use of terms changes over time.

Hubbard died at effect, out of control, in a mobile home loaded with prescription drugs.

Why not deal with reality?

 

[haiqu]

Why not deal with reality?

"You show me reality, and I'll be happy to confront it." - LRH

haiqu