Stably exterior with full perception

[Tanstaafl]

Many years ago an OTVIII asked me what I wanted to get out of Scn.
Feeling a bit out-of-sorts at the time I must have let at least a millisecond go by before I responded with "Stably exterior with full perception." This person looked at me like I was an idiot and said "What do you want that for?"

Now, I accept that we all have slightly different goals and priorities, but wtf is that all about.

Since I've recently been spending a lot of time trying to work out where the hell I'm supposed to be going and how I'm going to get there, I went over why I had gotten into Scn in the first place. It was the ep of L12 as vouched for by LRH himself; you know the quote: "when I was on the ship I would never let an Ls pc leave unless they were exterior with perception and able to maintain it" or something very similar.

So, my question is: Has anyone on the forum achieved this state or come close to it, or know anyone who has. If so, how did they do it?

When you've had this as your goal it's not easy to reset your sights on plain old vanilla self-improvement.

BTW, RolandRB and Zinjifar, I've already anticipated your devastatingly witty put-downs, but you can try me out all the same.

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Dulloldfart]

Ah yes. Stably exterior with full perception.

It sounds really good, tanstaafl, doesn't it? I know that is what I dreamed of for years while I was a good churchie. And after all, as you say, LRH did kind of state it was readily attainable.

But what exactly does it mean? The only words which are fairly obvious in meaning are the ones used with their regular English definitions, namely "stably", "with" and "full", and even "full" is somewhat iffy in this context.

At first glance one might hope for Pat Price or Ingo Swann-type of exterior perception, only, er, fuller. One can zip off for a trip to Venus or Uranus, and get an accurate perception of the environment there. Or go prospecting for gold, and rapidly scan through rock strata to locate the mother lode. Or reliably locate oil and the best place to dig a well and then seal it off in case a sufficient supply reduces the oil giants' obscene profits. Or check out some exciting super-secret black project. All this good stuff.

However, a few minutes' thought will show that people haven't been doing this kind of stuff. Apart from Pat Price and Ingo Swann. There might be one or two others, maybe even better ones, who have been keeping it very, very quiet, so that not even rumours have made it onto the Internet. But I think this is unlikely. If such results were obtainable, I would think the :shark:'s Int Management would have capitalized on them to attract more people to part with most of their wordly goods and be indebted for the next lifetime's supply of worldly goods too.

I don't claim to have ever been "exterior with full perception", whatever it means. I assume it would include being able to see clearly using one's sixth chakra--the third eye--being able to directly observe the different manifestations of the human energy field, the aura, with its colourful pulsations and telltale blocks and flows. It would include being able to view and permeate different parts of the physical universe in real time. Ideally it would include being able to view anything from anyone's viewpoint from any time in the past, the Akashic Records. I leave out being able to view the future.

None of this is particularly far-fetched in terms of human abilities. Healers such as Barbara Brennan can do the aura bit and also the Akashic bit to some extent; you know about Ingo Swann. The Amazing Kreskin famously asks people hosting his stage show to hide his performance cheque somewhere in the building and if he can't find it they don't have to pay him.

But do Scientology services routinely deliver such results? Nope.

Do they ever deliver such results? I would have to say it is very unlikely but not impossible.

But I haven't given up hope that there is some tech that will allow such abilities to be developed if one is industrious about it, maybe not in existence now but possibly on the horizon.

More researchers needed!

Paul

 

[Tanstaafl]

Paul, you've just broken my heart! But, I'll forgive you.

In terms of what can be perceived, I'll settle for what the body can perceive - providing someone manufactures prescription wrap-around contact lenses for thetans.

I guess that once a person is "out" they will need a fair degree of education and drilling - an apprenticeship, if you like. What's that quote from Dune? "What senses do we lack that we cannot see another world all around us?".

Lifetimes of perceiving through bodies will likely result in the thetan only looking at what he's used to seeing on the via of the body. So, no ultra-violet or infra-red in the visible spectrum. No looking at things from a viewpoint that much closer, e.g. inspecting molecules and atoms. What about being able to pickup radio stations at will? One could develop quite a checksheet for hatting an exterior thetan on perceiving.

Thanks for yout input. I've decided that "stably exterior with full perception" was my original goal, still is my main goal and I'm bloody well not going to give up on it yet. Oh well, I'd better stop moaning and pull my finger out!

Cheers

 

[Dulloldfart]

In terms of what can be perceived, I'll settle for what the body can perceive....

I've decided that "stably exterior with full perception" was my original goal, still is my main goal and I'm bloody well not going to give up on it yet.

Don't aim too low. It's not like you either view things as a body or as Superman, with nothing in between. For example, as I mentioned in another thread, there is a simple drill anyone can use--even Roland or Zinj --to see or feel their own aura, copied from a Barbara Brennan book, in a post of mine archived here.

I haven't given up on stably exterior with full perception either. Stick with it!

Paul

 

[Tanstaafl]

Don't aim too low. It's not like you either view things as a body or as Superman, with nothing in between. For example, as I mentioned in another thread, there is a simple drill anyone can use--even Roland or Zinj --to see or feel their own aura, copied from a Barbara Brennan book, in a post of mine archived here.

I haven't given up on stably exterior with full perception either. Stick with it!

Paul

I did try that drill when I read the book about ten years ago. I'll give it another go.

Presumably, exterior perception goes through bands in much the same way that track recall does and a degree of dub-in is to be expected. It seems to me that the newly-exterior thetan is in a quite fragile condition and highly susceptible to invalidation from self or others.

I had to upbraid my partner once for self-invalidating her exterior perception because it didn't agree with the body's. Maybe she was right and the body was wrong, or vice versa, or they were both wrong, or even they were both right! But to defer to the body by default seems very low-scale. There's probably a strong button on agreement with regard to perception, also. Of course, I have the right to criticise as someone who has never exteriorised with perception! Although, when I was younger I would often exteriorise on my second pint of bitter and be able to pick up sonic pretty well. Some bait for Roland and Zinj there. Maybe I flattened bitter and need to move on to the next process - whisky perhaps?

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

I have been plagued with ill-health all my life, and would often joke that I had been "petitioning for a replacement body". It was therefore logical to me that if I achieved a state of "exterior" I, very obviously, would want to stay that way so that I could just push my body to do what needed to be done (the good old productivity drive again).

I never understood why people "higher up" than I was, thought this to be such a bizarre expectation. Now I know that they hadn't achieved it either.

 

[Tanstaafl]

I have been plagued with ill-health all my life, and would often joke that I had been "petitioning for a replacement body". It was therefore logical to me that if I achieved a state of "exterior" I, very obviously, would want to stay that way so that I could just push my body to do what needed to be done (the good old productivity drive again).

I never understood why people "higher up" than I was, thought this to be such a bizarre expectation. Now I know that they hadn't achieved it either.

Know what you mean.

It's two ARC-Xs for the price of one. Firstly, when you get into Scn you assume (well, I did) that there is a good level of agreement on what the subject is and on both personal and group goals.
My experience is that individual perceptions of what the Church is there for and why people are going up the Bridge vary greatly, as does reality on what can be achieved through Scn.

Secondly, what the hell happened to granting of beingness and getting the other guy's viewpoint?

"All great successes are built on attention to fundamentals" - LRH (Study Tapes). The greatest fundamental, IMHO, is communication. The Church is ostensibly the only group with a thorough and workable definition of communication. It is ostensibly the only group that has drills to master communication. The drills are easily understood and require no more expense than two chairs and a space to put them in. So why in the name of all that is holy is communication in the Church simply not in ! :mad:

Insightful or witty responses to this question, gratefully received.

Hope you find some solution to the body problems.

 

[lionheart]

Many years ago an OTVIII asked me what I wanted to get out of Scn.
Feeling a bit out-of-sorts at the time I must have let at least a millisecond go by before I responded with "Stably exterior with full perception." This person looked at me like I was an idiot and said "What do you want that for?"

Now, I accept that we all have slightly different goals and priorities, but wtf is that all about.

Since I've recently been spending a lot of time trying to work out where the hell I'm supposed to be going and how I'm going to get there, I went over why I had gotten into Scn in the first place. It was the ep of L12 as vouched for by LRH himself; you know the quote: "when I was on the ship I would never let an Ls pc leave unless they were exterior with perception and able to maintain it" or something very similar.

So, my question is: Has anyone on the forum achieved this state or come close to it, or know anyone who has. If so, how did they do it?

When you've had this as your goal it's not easy to reset your sights on plain old vanilla self-improvement.

BTW, RolandRB and Zinjifar, I've already anticipated your devastatingly witty put-downs, but you can try me out all the same.

Cheers

tanstaafl

Hi Tanstaafl

I got into Scn too hoping for Ron's promise of ext with full perception.

It took me years to let that goal go even after years of being out. On another thread we discussed this. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=832

and I said "My own opinion is that exteriorisation as described by Ron is a lie, maybe even a trap. He seemed to view it as some sort of escape or means of control over MEST and the body."

For me slowly the goal became more of an interiorisation process that produced wonderful results. I tried to describe it on page 3 of the above thread.

I quote this in case it helps you.

 

[Dulloldfart]

So why in the name of all that is holy is communication in the Church simply not in ! :mad:

If communication was really in, the public wouldn't be.

I can't think of one thing the :shark: has a monopoly on that is valuable, except for the ability to extort some of your friends and associates into not communicating with those no longer in thrall.

Paul

 

[RolandRB]

Many years ago an OTVIII asked me what I wanted to get out of Scn.
Feeling a bit out-of-sorts at the time I must have let at least a millisecond go by before I responded with "Stably exterior with full perception." This person looked at me like I was an idiot and said "What do you want that for?"

Now, I accept that we all have slightly different goals and priorities, but wtf is that all about.

Since I've recently been spending a lot of time trying to work out where the hell I'm supposed to be going and how I'm going to get there, I went over why I had gotten into Scn in the first place. It was the ep of L12 as vouched for by LRH himself; you know the quote: "when I was on the ship I would never let an Ls pc leave unless they were exterior with perception and able to maintain it" or something very similar.

So, my question is: Has anyone on the forum achieved this state or come close to it, or know anyone who has. If so, how did they do it?

When you've had this as your goal it's not easy to reset your sights on plain old vanilla self-improvement.

BTW, RolandRB and Zinjifar, I've already anticipated your devastatingly witty put-downs, but you can try me out all the same.

Cheers

tanstaafl

In a session once, oddly enough ARC Straightwire, I had an "exterior with full perception" experience. I don't know what it was but it really did feel as though I had left my body and I was seeing things from a different point in the room. When it happened and for years afterwards I was convinced it was for real. But I am guessing it wasn't. If it were for real then there would be people who really were "stably exterior with full perception" and they would have won the Randi million by now.

Ask any OT who claims they are stably exterior to demonstrate it by reading a playing card that you strategically place near their MEST body out of their eyesight and you will find they are nothing of the sort.

 

[Royal Prince Xenu]

Hope you find some solution to the body problems.

I did find an answer: DRUGS!

 

[Tanstaafl]

Hi Tanstaafl

I got into Scn too hoping for Ron's promise of ext with full perception.

It took me years to let that goal go even after years of being out. On another thread we discussed this. http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=832

and I said "My own opinion is that exteriorisation as described by Ron is a lie, maybe even a trap. He seemed to view it as some sort of escape or means of control over MEST and the body."

For me slowly the goal became more of an interiorisation process that produced wonderful results. I tried to describe it on page 3 of the above thread.

I quote this in case it helps you.

Thanks for that Lionheart. There were some interesting posts on that thread.

While I disagree with you (that ext. is a lie) it may be that you have somehow transcended exteriorisation which would be very cool.

Also, a lot of LRH references on exteriorisation fit badly with the explanation given in "How the E-meter Works". The latter being close to what Freet43 described of his own experience.

It's not that "stably exterior with full perception" is my ultimate goal. It's a condition that would allow me to look and inspect in a way far superior to any method that I can currently employ.

There are some cool Brits on this forum. Perhaps we should have an annual piss-up, er I mean group assembly, preferably involving a hot curry?

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Tanstaafl]

If communication was really in, the public wouldn't be.

I can't think of one thing the :shark: has a monopoly on that is valuable, except for the ability to extort some of your friends and associates into not communicating with those no longer in thrall.

Paul

Bloody hell, Paul. I haven't been on the forum that long but I didn't have you down as a cynic!

I guess it depends on how strictly one defines "monopoly".

Since kids these days leave school not knowing how to change a plug on a toaster or a washer in a tap, how about a part of the curriculum for practical "life skills" that would include the following, taught on the basis of "here's a few ideas to kick around and see if they work for you":-

the bank - locks, secondaries and engrams
valences - winning and "the weak valence"
serv facs - making self right and others wrong
ARC
KRC
Axiom 28
TRs
the tone scale
obnosis
basic study tech
dev-t
basic data series material (part of a larger course on thinking and deductive and inductive reasoning)
touch and contact assists
"And that is Banking" HCO PL

I'd also have a course on religion called "This is what a bunch of people believe" that would include agnosticism and atheism.
And if it's all too much for the student - "How to self-audit R2-45 without leaving a mess for someone else to clean up."

 

[Dulloldfart]

Scn tech is available outside of the :shark:, tanstaafl, without all the hassles.

Paul

 

[Div6]

In a session once, oddly enough ARC Straightwire, I had an "exterior with full perception" experience. I don't know what it was but it really did feel as though I had left my body and I was seeing things from a different point in the room. When it happened and for years afterwards I was convinced it was for real. But I am guessing it wasn't. If it were for real then there would be people who really were "stably exterior with full perception" and they would have won the Randi million by now.

Exteriorization as an auditing goal was abandoned in the 50's. Per the 'old' grade chart, the 'old' OT 4, 5 and 6 were processes done while ext. On 'old' OT6 you had to get some one from a foriegn land to send you a post card.
I have talked to a few who did it successfully. It is beyond the ken of most, and the NOTs case had to be handled first anyway for the majority of people.

The thing about exterior with ability to postualte and percieve is that it is "no game condition". There is nothing you can't postulate or percieve...what amazes me is how many of those postulates and perceptions have to do with bedrooms, rather than board rooms.


These meat body societies are highly intolerant of anyone manifesting spiritual traits (and rightly so. Who wants the air cover ripped off the planet, or another ice age from the poles being spun). So those who can and do manifest do so privately.

As LRH said, 'you will be as powerful as you once were, but you won't be as stupid'...

Let those that believe they are meat live their delusions....I will live my own.

 

[Tanstaafl]

Scn tech is available outside of the :shark:, tanstaafl, without all the hassles.

Paul

Sorry Paul. I failed to distinguish between the Church and "Source.
Funny, 'cos I've often warned others about failing to do that.
LRH - CoS - Tech: the holy trinity

 

[lionheart]

Thanks for that Lionheart. There were some interesting posts on that thread.

While I disagree with you (that ext. is a lie) it may be that you have somehow transcended exteriorisation which would be very cool.

Also, a lot of LRH references on exteriorisation fit badly with the explanation given in "How the E-meter Works". The latter being close to what Freet43 described of his own experience.

It's not that "stably exterior with full perception" is my ultimate goal. It's a condition that would allow me to look and inspect in a way far superior to any method that I can currently employ.

There are some cool Brits on this forum. Perhaps we should have an annual piss-up, er I mean group assembly, preferably involving a hot curry?

Cheers

tanstaafl

You British as well? Of course an exteriorised Brit is an exteriorised Brit so I expect their exteriorisations would be politely delayed. "after you," "oh no, after you!"

If we we had an annual gathering would it be called "BEST"? British Ex-Scientologists Together.

What I experienced is not really exactly within the parameters of LRH's definition of Ext and Int, but nevertheless it is somewhat relevant.

I was being deliberately provocative to describe ext as a lie. Nevertheless I do feel his fixation on it was self-defeating. You know, the more you want something the less you get it. That sort of thing. His emphasis on being ext in order to control or escape MEST traps a person further into MEST in my opinion. That which you want to escape or control is more likely to trap and control you.

From my experience, the optimum for me is to neither be ext or int or perhaps another way to say it is to say be both ext and int. I discover more and more that opposites are an illusion. A coin is not either heads or tails. A coin is a coin and both sides are a vital part of what makes up a coin. A coin would not be a coin with only heads or tails. Similarly you would not be you if only either int or ext.

Just as a coin can't exist only as a head, maybe you can't exist only as ext?

Similarly, I am here looking out from a body that is in the world that is inside me.

I am here, everything is here!

Provocative question for you. You say "It's a condition that would allow me to look and inspect in a way far superior to any method that I can currently employ" Are you sure? How do you know that? What would happen if that is not actually true?

 

[Tanstaafl]

You British as well? Of course an exteriorised Brit is an exteriorised Brit so I expect their exteriorisations would be politely delayed. "after you," "oh no, after you!"

Then we'd refuse to complain to the management when the experience didn't meet our expectations, and then we'd moan about it when we got home

I was being deliberately provocative to describe ext as a lie. Nevertheless I do feel his fixation on it was self-defeating. You know, the more you want something the less you get it. That sort of thing. His emphasis on being ext in order to control or escape MEST traps a person further into MEST in my opinion. That which you want to escape or control is more likely to trap and control you.

I posted elsewhere the irony of an "Old Cuffs" where LRH says "Lao Tzu was so right about striving!".

From my experience, the optimum for me is to neither be ext or int or perhaps another way to say it is to say be both ext and int. I discover more and more that opposites are an illusion. A coin is not either heads or tails. A coin is a coin and both sides are a vital part of what makes up a coin. A coin would not be a coin with only heads or tails. Similarly you would not be you if only either int or ext.


Just as a coin can't exist only as a head, maybe you can't exist only as ext?

Similarly, I am here looking out from a body that is in the world that is inside me.

I am here, everything is here!

Provocative question for you. You say "It's a condition that would allow me to look and inspect in a way far superior to any method that I can currently employ" Are you sure? How do you know that? What would happen if that is not actually true?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I know bugger all! Well, at least it's a starting point.

Perhaps I need to redefine my goal: able to locate myself at will and perceive the environment directly.

 

[Whitedove]

tanstaafl,

To answer your initial question, I personally never met a Scientologist who was able to go exterior with full perceptions. No one ever told me anyhow.

No wonder this OT you are talking about asked you that question.
He couldnt do it himself. I dont know whether its achievable or not. There is other ways to achieve exteriorization out of Scientology. I dont know if people do exteriorize for real or not. I never experienced it myself so unless someone gives me tangible proofs of that well, I dont know.

Perhaps I need to redefine my goal: able to locate myself at will and perceive the environment directly.

Sounds like a good start to me

ML
Whitedove

 

[Mick Wenlock]

I do find myself fully exterior to Scientology with full perception..