Claire Swazey
Spokeshole, fence sitter
I already specifically mentioned that fallacy and that this does happen with wins.
Mischief at large.
- Thread starter mischief
- Start date
I already specifically mentioned that fallacy and that this does happen with wins.
Claire Swazey
Spokeshole, fence sitter
I agree. And one thing I did mention in my post earlier today is that sometimes people who attribute their improvement to Scn are incorrectly assigning cause and effect where none existed.
I think sometimes it may help and sometimes not. I think some of the wins some people attribute to Scn did not, in fact, originate from their Scn studies/auditing. I just don't happen to think that's always the sitch. And I am, of course, quite right in this.
I am definitely all about the pretty rocks. Where have decades of auditing and study gotten people who spent that much time? Although I do think that some people got some ameliorative effects- and possibly even, in some cases a modicum of enlightenment- I do not believe that if those same people had meditated for years or spent years going to a competent and decent psychotherapist, that they'd have been any less far along. Probably could have made more progress in a numbe of cases.
I know all that. I know about the incorrect cause and effect logical fallacy- though I got absolutely no credit or acknowledgement from the person to whom I said it- and I know that happens. And I know that there's nothing wrong with most of the pretty rocks out there.
But damned if I'm going to say that everyone who thinks they got something out of Scn never did. I'm pretty sure that's one of dem dere logical fallacies
Re: Wish I had known you were here years ago.
I really wanted to answer your post,I find it quite deep....gonna have to contemplate alittle to get it all sorted out proper like
You joined young. You learned things during your scientology experience -- didn't we all? The fact that you now see a lot of "positive results" from your experience would indicate, to me, that you are a person who will find the positive aspects of your life experiences, and build on those, rather than focusing on and being defined by whatever negative influences and experiences you've had.
This is, I think, completely unrelated to the fact that "scientology" presents itself as a "set of tools" that can improve one's life -- which I do not buy, at all.
I think people improve their lives by deciding to improve their lives. I think there are some useful "tools" out there in the world that can help one do this, but I think few -- if any-- are found under the umbrella of "scientology" and to let folks believe that the tools they need are wtihin that umbrella is misleading at best, criminal at worst. Ex-scientologists would be expected to know better. Some people who have used scientology have improved their lives -- mostly by getting away from it when they realized that it was not what it claimed, or first appeared, to be.
If one wants to compare scientology to a "tool," I would say it is mostly comparable to a vacuum cleaner, which sucks up what it comes in contact with (people) and ultimately leaves it (them) on the trash heap... except for those who apparently like being whirled around inside, and those who resisted the first attack, or those who rose from the trash heap and dusted themselves off and made a new start, hopefully having learned something from the experience. Apparently you have done just that, and I commend you.
I really wanted to answer your post,I find it quite deep....gonna have to contemplate alittle to get it all sorted out proper like
'You joined young.'
Yes,When I read that, I immediately thought....too young?.
In some ways yes, in others, no.
I was perhaps trained(?) from early childhood on the subject of duty and responsibility.
My dad was away in the navy for most of my early years, sometimes for up to 18 months or more at a time.
At 5 years old, I was preparing dinner and cooking it in time for my mum to come home from work.
She would pre-set the stove and I would prepare the vegies, meat, put it in the appropriate containers that were on the bench, put these either in or on the stove and then turn the main switch on at the wall.
I had been taught how to tell the time, and so knew when to turn the stove on.After that, it was left alone to do its own thing til mum came home from work.
Later, of course, my brother and I did this together, or took turns cooking.We had each had our list of chores to do the housework as well.He now is quite happy doing housework, I on the other hand avoid it for as long as possible.
At around 7-8, I was told that as the eldest grandchild/eldest of my generation, I had duties and responsibilities-this is an old Maori tradition that has a specific word, which unfortunately, I cant remember how to spell, which simply means the eldest grand daughter/or now just the eldest grandchild.Personally, I have found that this concept has little place in the modern world.
This is similar to the Scottish culture where the eldest has responsibilities for the extended clan.
I dreaded the fact that I would have to assume these responsiblities, til one day it occurred to me that nobody had taken me to task for not starting to pick these up-around 15-16 years old.
The concept had been told to me by my scottish grandmother who was married to my Maori grandfather.
My grampa had disconnected from his family, for good reason, also a culturally allowed for happening, and would not have anything to do with his family or culture and he would not teach me what I had come to believe I needed to know.
Caused lot of confusion for me.
I tried to teach myself our culture and even went to a neighbour 2 doors up, when I was about 10, to ask him to teach me how to speak Maori, but he just laughed and told me that that was dumb maori stuff and a nice little pakeha girl(short definition=white person) like you doesnt want to know that....I was angry, humiliated and even more confused.
I wouldnt have asked if I didnt want to know.
20 years later, his wife was teaching Maori language and culture at my eldest sons' first high school and told me that I should be taking an interest in my culture...I felt like slapping her.
So, there I was a leader responsible for my family that didnt want or need me to carry out my duty.At the time, the term 'rebel without a cause', really resonated.
Did I transfer that sense of duty and responsibility to something else...I think so.
(When I look back, I did alot of things ....young.)
' You learned things during your scientology experience -- didn't we all?'
Alot of what I learnt is still with me, as it probably is with lot of us.
Some of it is deeply embedded.
Alot of it I have simply translated into what actually works in real life.
Sometimes I am shocked that something I thought I had figured out for myself, actually came from/or I heard of from scn.
Sometimes, I am okay with that, other times,it sets me back on my arse and I m not happy..... another work/contemplation in progress.
'The fact that you now see a lot of "positive results" from your experience would indicate, to me, that you are a person who will find the positive aspects of your life experiences, and build on those, rather than focusing on and being defined by whatever negative influences and experiences you've had.'
Our Maori family name, translated into English, means Stubborn,some say, pig headedly so...personally, I prefer 'Persistent'.
I keep going til I get it, whatever it, happens to be.I always eventually get what I want.Sometimes, it stays on the back burner for a long time before I get around to it again.
I do know that there were times that I did help others and that there were times that I got the help I needed.
I came to the conclusion that there are many lessons in each and every life experience, be they good or bad.
Sometimes, these dont/havent become apparent for some years later.Usually when I can handle facing up to them, working my way through them and dealing with it to my satisfaction.I no long concern myself as to whether or not it is dealt with to somebody elses stisfaction.
Sometimes, I go back over something again and take a 'fresh eyes' approach to it,usually, after I have read or heard something that I thought related to that situation.
This is why I have a 'law' that says, 'set nothing in stone'
As you grow, your viewpoint changes and you see more, or see from a different perspective.
Not all lessons learnt were what the 'originator' of said lesson intended.
My understanding of these things changed or I was able to jump to anothers' point of view and see it from a different slant.
I used to and sometimes still do, play 'what if', with different situations....some may call it role playing or other things. I just call it playing 'what if'.
I found I calmed down or felt ontop of a situation when I did this.
Sometimes, it opened up other avenues I had never even thought of before hand.
Apparently, it is considered in some Asian philosophies, that your greatest torments/tormentors are your greatest teachers.I have found this to be a good thing to keep in mind.
I dont feel that any of my experiences define me.
There were times when I was so stressed, I used books and reading to get me through.
I would read each word,one at a time,just focusing on each one after the slow and painful next, just to have something to focus on, in order to hold myself together.
I wasnt reading a story in those times, I was just focusing on something I could see right in front of me.
'This is, I think, completely unrelated to the fact that "scientology" presents itself as a "set of tools" that can improve one's life -- which I do not buy, at all.'
We all have our own paths to follow,I accept this is your path.
I follow my own path and part of that is accepting that what I learnt is scn, is a part of what makes me as I am today.
A true blue scio would consider me to be a squirrel-I dont use the 'tech' in the proscribed manner, but I have come to accept thst alot of what I do and how I think, I learnt from this field.It is now a part of me that I am not sure I can separate from or even should attempt to separate from....a contemplation in progress....
'I think people improve their lives by deciding to improve their lives'
Yes, that conscious decision, as far as I can see is a determining factor.To do otherwise is to drift through life.That may well be enough for others and there are some times when it is enough for me as well, but not usually.
' I think there are some useful "tools" out there in the world that can help one do this, but I think few -- if any-- are found under the umbrella of "scientology" and to let folks believe that the tools they need are wtihin that umbrella is misleading at best, criminal at worst.'
I didnt say, nor did I see anyone else saying...'the tools that they Need...',I saw, 'It has tools that can be used...'
My viewpoint is that we are each on our own path and need to allow others the right to their own path, their own tools, no matter where they find them..... knowledge is universal.
It is where each finds it/when each finds it, as each needs to find it....each to their own,
I would not even consider anymore, that I have any right to make demands of any other person or insist that my viewpoint is right for someone else.
I concentrate now, only on fixing and healing myself,doing good deeds for the sheer joy of it ..or just because I can.
If another has issues to deal with, I leave it up to them to do so, unimpeded, unless they specifically ask for my help.
Nothing is criminal in this respect. Abusive behaviour is criminal....and yet some of my conclusions and resolutions have come from the act of resolving/coming to terms with the abuses I have had to deal with throughout my life and not just in respect to scn.
'Ex-scientologists would be expected to know better. Some people who have used scientology have improved their lives -- mostly by getting away from it when they realized that it was not what it claimed, or first appeared, to be.'
If this was true, there would be no Freezoners. Personally, I have no objection to others in their choices, so long as they do not impede my own.
I has become obvious to me that at least some of what we considered was scn 'tech', was nothing more than stolen reworded works from other people,times,places, repackaged to make it seem modern and new.
I agree that the claims of end results are greatly exaggerated and I believe that alot of those claims were made with only a hope that this would eventuate, rather than the certainty that these claims were achieveable.(talking about the 'EPs"of NED and upper levels,in particular.)
It has become blatantly obvious that there is way too much evaluation as to what people should be putting their attention on in order to achieve greater abilities.
We were all educated,right from the start, that greater abilities could only be achieved through auditing.
So those who already had abilities before they ever arrived at an org and didnt realise they actually had these abilities because they were already normal in effect, lost these abilities simply because some idiot told them they couldnt do it Until they had auditing.
'If one wants to compare scientology to a "tool," I would say it is mostly comparable to a vacuum cleaner, which sucks up what it comes in contact with (people) and ultimately leaves it (them) on the trash heap... except for those who apparently like being whirled around inside,....'
Ok.
'... and those who resisted the first attack, or those who rose from the trash heap and dusted themselves off and made a new start, hopefully having learned something from the experience. Apparently you have done just that, and I commend you.'
Thank you,but I dont consider I fell into any trash heap.
I consider that we live on a planet that is just one big trash heap.
Scn does not and never did hold any monopoly in abusive behaviour or attitudes-this whole planet and its long history is rife with it.
It only seems important and painful, because it happened to us, here and now.
In 100 years, trust me you wont give shit about any of this.(damn, cant get that 'cool' face to show)
So .................................have a big fat hug and kiss instead.
Yes,When I read that, I immediately thought....too young?.
In some ways yes, in others, no.
I was perhaps trained(?) from early childhood on the subject of duty and responsibility.
My dad was away in the navy for most of my early years, sometimes for up to 18 months or more at a time.
At 5 years old, I was preparing dinner and cooking it in time for my mum to come home from work.
She would pre-set the stove and I would prepare the vegies, meat, put it in the appropriate containers that were on the bench, put these either in or on the stove and then turn the main switch on at the wall.
I had been taught how to tell the time, and so knew when to turn the stove on.After that, it was left alone to do its own thing til mum came home from work.
Later, of course, my brother and I did this together, or took turns cooking.We had each had our list of chores to do the housework as well.He now is quite happy doing housework, I on the other hand avoid it for as long as possible.
At around 7-8, I was told that as the eldest grandchild/eldest of my generation, I had duties and responsibilities-this is an old Maori tradition that has a specific word, which unfortunately, I cant remember how to spell, which simply means the eldest grand daughter/or now just the eldest grandchild.Personally, I have found that this concept has little place in the modern world.
This is similar to the Scottish culture where the eldest has responsibilities for the extended clan.
I dreaded the fact that I would have to assume these responsiblities, til one day it occurred to me that nobody had taken me to task for not starting to pick these up-around 15-16 years old.
The concept had been told to me by my scottish grandmother who was married to my Maori grandfather.
My grampa had disconnected from his family, for good reason, also a culturally allowed for happening, and would not have anything to do with his family or culture and he would not teach me what I had come to believe I needed to know.
Caused lot of confusion for me.
I tried to teach myself our culture and even went to a neighbour 2 doors up, when I was about 10, to ask him to teach me how to speak Maori, but he just laughed and told me that that was dumb maori stuff and a nice little pakeha girl(short definition=white person) like you doesnt want to know that....I was angry, humiliated and even more confused.
I wouldnt have asked if I didnt want to know.
20 years later, his wife was teaching Maori language and culture at my eldest sons' first high school and told me that I should be taking an interest in my culture...I felt like slapping her.
So, there I was a leader responsible for my family that didnt want or need me to carry out my duty.At the time, the term 'rebel without a cause', really resonated.
Did I transfer that sense of duty and responsibility to something else...I think so.
(When I look back, I did alot of things ....young.)
' You learned things during your scientology experience -- didn't we all?'
Alot of what I learnt is still with me, as it probably is with lot of us.
Some of it is deeply embedded.
Alot of it I have simply translated into what actually works in real life.
Sometimes I am shocked that something I thought I had figured out for myself, actually came from/or I heard of from scn.
Sometimes, I am okay with that, other times,it sets me back on my arse and I m not happy..... another work/contemplation in progress.
'The fact that you now see a lot of "positive results" from your experience would indicate, to me, that you are a person who will find the positive aspects of your life experiences, and build on those, rather than focusing on and being defined by whatever negative influences and experiences you've had.'
Our Maori family name, translated into English, means Stubborn,some say, pig headedly so...personally, I prefer 'Persistent'.
I keep going til I get it, whatever it, happens to be.I always eventually get what I want.Sometimes, it stays on the back burner for a long time before I get around to it again.
I do know that there were times that I did help others and that there were times that I got the help I needed.
I came to the conclusion that there are many lessons in each and every life experience, be they good or bad.
Sometimes, these dont/havent become apparent for some years later.Usually when I can handle facing up to them, working my way through them and dealing with it to my satisfaction.I no long concern myself as to whether or not it is dealt with to somebody elses stisfaction.
Sometimes, I go back over something again and take a 'fresh eyes' approach to it,usually, after I have read or heard something that I thought related to that situation.
This is why I have a 'law' that says, 'set nothing in stone'
As you grow, your viewpoint changes and you see more, or see from a different perspective.
Not all lessons learnt were what the 'originator' of said lesson intended.
My understanding of these things changed or I was able to jump to anothers' point of view and see it from a different slant.
I used to and sometimes still do, play 'what if', with different situations....some may call it role playing or other things. I just call it playing 'what if'.
I found I calmed down or felt ontop of a situation when I did this.
Sometimes, it opened up other avenues I had never even thought of before hand.
Apparently, it is considered in some Asian philosophies, that your greatest torments/tormentors are your greatest teachers.I have found this to be a good thing to keep in mind.
I dont feel that any of my experiences define me.
There were times when I was so stressed, I used books and reading to get me through.
I would read each word,one at a time,just focusing on each one after the slow and painful next, just to have something to focus on, in order to hold myself together.
I wasnt reading a story in those times, I was just focusing on something I could see right in front of me.
'This is, I think, completely unrelated to the fact that "scientology" presents itself as a "set of tools" that can improve one's life -- which I do not buy, at all.'
We all have our own paths to follow,I accept this is your path.
I follow my own path and part of that is accepting that what I learnt is scn, is a part of what makes me as I am today.
A true blue scio would consider me to be a squirrel-I dont use the 'tech' in the proscribed manner, but I have come to accept thst alot of what I do and how I think, I learnt from this field.It is now a part of me that I am not sure I can separate from or even should attempt to separate from....a contemplation in progress....
'I think people improve their lives by deciding to improve their lives'
Yes, that conscious decision, as far as I can see is a determining factor.To do otherwise is to drift through life.That may well be enough for others and there are some times when it is enough for me as well, but not usually.
' I think there are some useful "tools" out there in the world that can help one do this, but I think few -- if any-- are found under the umbrella of "scientology" and to let folks believe that the tools they need are wtihin that umbrella is misleading at best, criminal at worst.'
I didnt say, nor did I see anyone else saying...'the tools that they Need...',I saw, 'It has tools that can be used...'
My viewpoint is that we are each on our own path and need to allow others the right to their own path, their own tools, no matter where they find them..... knowledge is universal.
It is where each finds it/when each finds it, as each needs to find it....each to their own,
I would not even consider anymore, that I have any right to make demands of any other person or insist that my viewpoint is right for someone else.
I concentrate now, only on fixing and healing myself,doing good deeds for the sheer joy of it ..or just because I can.
If another has issues to deal with, I leave it up to them to do so, unimpeded, unless they specifically ask for my help.
Nothing is criminal in this respect. Abusive behaviour is criminal....and yet some of my conclusions and resolutions have come from the act of resolving/coming to terms with the abuses I have had to deal with throughout my life and not just in respect to scn.
'Ex-scientologists would be expected to know better. Some people who have used scientology have improved their lives -- mostly by getting away from it when they realized that it was not what it claimed, or first appeared, to be.'
If this was true, there would be no Freezoners. Personally, I have no objection to others in their choices, so long as they do not impede my own.
I has become obvious to me that at least some of what we considered was scn 'tech', was nothing more than stolen reworded works from other people,times,places, repackaged to make it seem modern and new.
I agree that the claims of end results are greatly exaggerated and I believe that alot of those claims were made with only a hope that this would eventuate, rather than the certainty that these claims were achieveable.(talking about the 'EPs"of NED and upper levels,in particular.)
It has become blatantly obvious that there is way too much evaluation as to what people should be putting their attention on in order to achieve greater abilities.
We were all educated,right from the start, that greater abilities could only be achieved through auditing.
So those who already had abilities before they ever arrived at an org and didnt realise they actually had these abilities because they were already normal in effect, lost these abilities simply because some idiot told them they couldnt do it Until they had auditing.
'If one wants to compare scientology to a "tool," I would say it is mostly comparable to a vacuum cleaner, which sucks up what it comes in contact with (people) and ultimately leaves it (them) on the trash heap... except for those who apparently like being whirled around inside,....'
Ok.
'... and those who resisted the first attack, or those who rose from the trash heap and dusted themselves off and made a new start, hopefully having learned something from the experience. Apparently you have done just that, and I commend you.'
Thank you,but I dont consider I fell into any trash heap.
I consider that we live on a planet that is just one big trash heap.
Scn does not and never did hold any monopoly in abusive behaviour or attitudes-this whole planet and its long history is rife with it.
It only seems important and painful, because it happened to us, here and now.
In 100 years, trust me you wont give shit about any of this.(damn, cant get that 'cool' face to show)
So .................................have a big fat hug and kiss instead.
The_Fixer
Class Clown
Starting to go cross-eyed looking at all that!
I've been trying to figure out how to write this without using a celeb's name and not lose its spark.
Couldnt get in touch with them to get permission so, I guess its going to be alittle lackluster.
When I was doing work/study at ITO in 1984,I was working at the celeb centre restaurant to cover my room and board.
Sometimes I would do the breakfast shift and then lunch.
One day, I decided to just sit and read in the lobby during the break between mealtimes.
The bookstore i/c came over to see what I was doing there and probably to try to sell me a book, but I guess he already knew that org students didnt have any money and he wandered off again.
Not long after, this guy came in and sat down beside me,(Mmmm, Down girl!!).
The bookstore made a beeline for him.
I tried to ignore the conversation, but just couldnt help myself from throwing in the odd bit of shit stirring.
Anyway, the bookstore i/c, decided that this person really needed to see the leather bound Battlefield Earth book and off he trotted to get it.
While his back was turned, Mr.Yummy turned to me and asked if I wanted to go grab a coffee.
Down went the book and we shot across the lobby, up the little flight of stairs, a little peak round the corner to make sure we hadnt been spotted by a hungry bookseller, round the corner and down to the basement, where the laundry and a vending machine was.
I was good, unfortunately...ne'mind.
Pity it happened just before I had to go back to work,or maybe just as well,haha.
The next morning, there he was in the restaurant for a early morning coffee.
He seemed alittle disappointed to see me, 'aww, oh well', I thought, 'just serve his coffee then and no chatting up the customers'.
It wasnt til I got home again and heard this name on the radio and listened to his latest song..damn! I could have at least have asked for an autograph.
Cant help give a little hint, his name is on the googles list of celeb exes,I'm listening to his jazzy songs as I type this.
I similar thing happened when I was at Flag.I knew this lady was a somebody but couldnt for the life of me remember who.
I thought her eyes were very unusual and quite arresting so I Was staring.
Poor thing walked up to me and said 'Hi, I'm Karen .....'.
'Hi', I say, 'Nice to meet you, I'm Trish'.
I must be a celebs second worse nightmare-I just didnt know who they were, or their face was familiar but I just couldnt place them.
Couldnt get in touch with them to get permission so, I guess its going to be alittle lackluster.
When I was doing work/study at ITO in 1984,I was working at the celeb centre restaurant to cover my room and board.
Sometimes I would do the breakfast shift and then lunch.
One day, I decided to just sit and read in the lobby during the break between mealtimes.
The bookstore i/c came over to see what I was doing there and probably to try to sell me a book, but I guess he already knew that org students didnt have any money and he wandered off again.
Not long after, this guy came in and sat down beside me,(Mmmm, Down girl!!).
The bookstore made a beeline for him.
I tried to ignore the conversation, but just couldnt help myself from throwing in the odd bit of shit stirring.
Anyway, the bookstore i/c, decided that this person really needed to see the leather bound Battlefield Earth book and off he trotted to get it.
While his back was turned, Mr.Yummy turned to me and asked if I wanted to go grab a coffee.
Down went the book and we shot across the lobby, up the little flight of stairs, a little peak round the corner to make sure we hadnt been spotted by a hungry bookseller, round the corner and down to the basement, where the laundry and a vending machine was.
I was good, unfortunately...ne'mind.
Pity it happened just before I had to go back to work,or maybe just as well,haha.
The next morning, there he was in the restaurant for a early morning coffee.
He seemed alittle disappointed to see me, 'aww, oh well', I thought, 'just serve his coffee then and no chatting up the customers'.
It wasnt til I got home again and heard this name on the radio and listened to his latest song..damn! I could have at least have asked for an autograph.
Cant help give a little hint, his name is on the googles list of celeb exes,I'm listening to his jazzy songs as I type this.
I similar thing happened when I was at Flag.I knew this lady was a somebody but couldnt for the life of me remember who.
I thought her eyes were very unusual and quite arresting so I Was staring.
Poor thing walked up to me and said 'Hi, I'm Karen .....'.
'Hi', I say, 'Nice to meet you, I'm Trish'.
I must be a celebs second worse nightmare-I just didnt know who they were, or their face was familiar but I just couldnt place them.
CarmeloOrchards
Crusader
My youngest daughter, 11 years old, a star of the most popular show on Nickelodeon a lonnng time ago, was in The Juice Club (now Jamba Juice) in Brentwood one week end morning. A celebrity, who she recognized as being a popular actor walked over to her, and asked her for her autograph for his daughter on the other side of the room. To this day, she doesn't know who he was, but she knows he was famous. Nothing like tap dancing and being gracious, and not looking like an idiot.
At the opening for "The Positively True Adventures of the Alleged TEXAS Cheerleader Murdering Mom" (directed by Michael Ritchie) for HBO, I was talking with Lloyd Bridges. We talked about Bear Valley, where our families skied, we talked about shows his kids and he have been in with our kids, and then, as we were having such a pleasant conversation.....
I said I learned to scuba dive because of him and his "Sea Hunt" show.
His eyes glazed over, and he couldn't move on fast enough.
He had heard those words ten thousand times too many.
Claire Swazey
Spokeshole, fence sitter
Mischief,
I can relate. I have a bit of a facial recognition problem. Not as bad as some people, but I have to really know someone a long time before I can recognize them.
When I was working at a paper, years ago, there were these two petite redheads. Other than being petite, with auburn hair, they did not really look alike. It took a month before I could tell them apart. And when I run into someone I don't expect to see somewhere, I tend not to notice them.
I was at a critic's party and a very nice guy whom I'd hung out with a year or so before was there. And he was like, "CLAIRE!! HI!!" and I'm like, "...uhhhhhh..." and then I explained to the poor guy about my dumbass weirdness.
So hung out at the party, then the next day I go back to it, and I do recognize him (cuz I'm not that bad- LOL) and he's trying to be helpful and he's reminding me who he is and stuff. It was pretty funny.
I can relate. I have a bit of a facial recognition problem. Not as bad as some people, but I have to really know someone a long time before I can recognize them.
When I was working at a paper, years ago, there were these two petite redheads. Other than being petite, with auburn hair, they did not really look alike. It took a month before I could tell them apart. And when I run into someone I don't expect to see somewhere, I tend not to notice them.
I was at a critic's party and a very nice guy whom I'd hung out with a year or so before was there. And he was like, "CLAIRE!! HI!!" and I'm like, "...uhhhhhh..." and then I explained to the poor guy about my dumbass weirdness.
So hung out at the party, then the next day I go back to it, and I do recognize him (cuz I'm not that bad- LOL) and he's trying to be helpful and he's reminding me who he is and stuff. It was pretty funny.
Most people I knew just seemed to watch TV all night, I was always 'out n about' and then on staff nights and weekends, you didnt have alot of TV time then.I guess their names and faces didnt get to sink in.
I did spot Merryl Streep walking down Queens Street in Auckland though.I knew who she was cos she is one of my fav actresses.
I felt really sorry for her cos she realised she had been spotted and looked really scared.I was afraid she was going to bolt across the road.Felt like I had just ruined her day.
I used to walk 'home' to CCI from ITO after course with either a girl from Sydney or from the mid west-cant remember which org she was from now.That was always interesting, the others thought we were mad to be walking down Sunset Boulevard so late.
For laughs we used to take promo pieces with us for LA org and hand them out along the way.Loved walking along rows of people waiting for buses, every one of them would either flinch or jump backwards when our hand shot out in their direction with those bits of paper and they always took it looking thoroughly sheepish.Did they honestly think we were going to knife them or something?
We never had any trouble from the 'nightlife'.
The to-be Co CLO ANZO and I sometimes used to sneak downstairs where there was a huge room with a stage, the party room I called it.
Quite often some band or other would be having band practise, so we would have our bedtime coffee and smoke while we listened to our very own concert.
That all stopped when we got sent to board at the base.
Sigh, no more tips to buy smokes with.
We were assigned to work with the Berthing i/c-Aileen.She was from Ireland and I got the idea she was supposed to be an outer org student too, but somehow got stuck with this post and didnt know how to get out of it.
I got my first introduction to American electricity in her office.I picked up her electric alarm clock to see what the time was.It had bare wires at the back of it and I had my finger on it, puzzled by the slight buzzing sensation.Aileen was almost beside herself telling me I could have killed myself doing that.
I told her it felt like a kitten nibbling on my finger and yes if I had done that here at home, I could very well have been electricuted as our power supply is alot stronger than that was.
I was there when the order came out for no more scented personal products on base.Its amazing how much stuff got thrown out, all the 'trash chutes' were blocked up. The smell was horrendous.
Because we werent SO, this order didnt apply to us, we tried to see if there was anything salvageable and even went down into the basement where the dumpsters were to see what there was-couldnt get near them just because of the stench.Did it not occur to anyone that their glass bottles would break when they tossed them down these chutes?We are talking, what 7 floors, thats a long way for a bottle to drop.
One of our jobs was to move people from one room to another-I have no idea why, I do recall asking but didnt really understand the reason for all these moves.
We did try to make their new rooms nice and tidy so they could just walk in and go to bed without having to straighten it up.Left a note on the door of the old room to let them know where they were now berthed.
One couple were quite upset about it, but there wasnt anything we could do about it.
I luckily had come across a pair of sneakers that somebody had thrown out that were in good nick, so I didnt have to try running in my high heels any more.Got to the point where we could run up the stairs from the bottom to the very top without stopping and used to race each other.
I think we felt sorry for the RPF guys and if they had to run everywhere then we most of the time would to.
Another thing we had to do occasionally, was take peoples stuff over to the carpark where personal belongings were stored. This was really dark with no lights and I couldnt see how anyone would ever be able to find their stuff once it was installed there. I did ask Aileen, but she was so tired all the time her answer made no sense whatsoever.
Did anyone get their stuff/car back out of there?
One gardening thing I learnt, was from a guy who had brought his roses with him.
He had dug these dirty big holes along the roadside grass verges, filled them with water then planted out his roses.
I had never seen anyone do this before so I stopped to ask why he did this and had abit of a chat with him about gardening in general- not something I had had much to do with at that point.
I dont recall having to have a meal ticket to get fed, we had our own ITO students table.Most of the time I was happy with the food, there was the beans and rice which I thought I would never eat ever again when I came home, but rice is still one of my favourite foods.
My upset was when we heard that there was going to be sweet potatoes for dinner- KUMARA!! I thought, so too did the Aussies, we ran to dinner....only to poke round our plate looking for this elusive treat. 'Where is it?' we asked, quite disappointed.'There'they said point to this long thin stringy looking thing.I almost cried.Our 'sweet potatoe' or Kumara, as we call it, is nice and Fat and a yellowish purple colour, nothing like what was on our plate-that was sort of Orange and skinny.
Another time, there was peanut butter,oh, hadnt had that in sooo long, I took big glob of it only to spit it out. 'Its sweet! UGGh'.Tasted just nasty. We have our peanut butter salty, the way its supposed to be.
There was one guy from Kentucky, who seemed absolutely bewildered by us down under types.
I dont think he understood half of what we said. Ken, I think his name was.(or maybe that was our nickname for him, cant remember).. 'You-all talk sooooo fast'
We thought he talked soooo sloooow.We learnt how to talk Kennntucky style, hilarious.
He and a another guy took us to the supermarket one night after course. Not a big deal you think,Wrong!haha.
We had never seen such a large carpark and couldnt figure out how you could ever find your car again when the car park was full.
'Why is it open so late when there is nobody here?'Shops closed around 6pm back then t home and there was no such thing as shops open all night.We were fascinated by this.
He took me downtown one day too.I got to see that building that only has 3 sides and seems to disappear when you look at if from a certain part of the street.
We were in some downtown square when it was getting quite late, all the office workers were scurrying home and he was getting quite concerned, saying we had to go now cos it wasnt safe to be here anymore....'What?', There was a group of rough looking guys who had wandered into the square and started with the catcalling, so we left in a hurry.
Another time I caught a bus with a girl from Sydney.We were going to Santa Monica beach.We had no idea how far away if was and had left it too late in the day, which we didnt find out til we got there.I think the bus driver must have known we didnt know that his bus did a turnaround back to where we came from, or, that his was the last bus for the day and made a point of telling us, could have been a bit of a disaster if he hadnt. So all we got was, get off the bus, look at the beach, get on the bus again and go home.Bummer.
I did spot Merryl Streep walking down Queens Street in Auckland though.I knew who she was cos she is one of my fav actresses.
I felt really sorry for her cos she realised she had been spotted and looked really scared.I was afraid she was going to bolt across the road.Felt like I had just ruined her day.
I used to walk 'home' to CCI from ITO after course with either a girl from Sydney or from the mid west-cant remember which org she was from now.That was always interesting, the others thought we were mad to be walking down Sunset Boulevard so late.
For laughs we used to take promo pieces with us for LA org and hand them out along the way.Loved walking along rows of people waiting for buses, every one of them would either flinch or jump backwards when our hand shot out in their direction with those bits of paper and they always took it looking thoroughly sheepish.Did they honestly think we were going to knife them or something?
We never had any trouble from the 'nightlife'.
The to-be Co CLO ANZO and I sometimes used to sneak downstairs where there was a huge room with a stage, the party room I called it.
Quite often some band or other would be having band practise, so we would have our bedtime coffee and smoke while we listened to our very own concert.
That all stopped when we got sent to board at the base.
Sigh, no more tips to buy smokes with.
We were assigned to work with the Berthing i/c-Aileen.She was from Ireland and I got the idea she was supposed to be an outer org student too, but somehow got stuck with this post and didnt know how to get out of it.
I got my first introduction to American electricity in her office.I picked up her electric alarm clock to see what the time was.It had bare wires at the back of it and I had my finger on it, puzzled by the slight buzzing sensation.Aileen was almost beside herself telling me I could have killed myself doing that.
I told her it felt like a kitten nibbling on my finger and yes if I had done that here at home, I could very well have been electricuted as our power supply is alot stronger than that was.
I was there when the order came out for no more scented personal products on base.Its amazing how much stuff got thrown out, all the 'trash chutes' were blocked up. The smell was horrendous.
Because we werent SO, this order didnt apply to us, we tried to see if there was anything salvageable and even went down into the basement where the dumpsters were to see what there was-couldnt get near them just because of the stench.Did it not occur to anyone that their glass bottles would break when they tossed them down these chutes?We are talking, what 7 floors, thats a long way for a bottle to drop.
One of our jobs was to move people from one room to another-I have no idea why, I do recall asking but didnt really understand the reason for all these moves.
We did try to make their new rooms nice and tidy so they could just walk in and go to bed without having to straighten it up.Left a note on the door of the old room to let them know where they were now berthed.
One couple were quite upset about it, but there wasnt anything we could do about it.
I luckily had come across a pair of sneakers that somebody had thrown out that were in good nick, so I didnt have to try running in my high heels any more.Got to the point where we could run up the stairs from the bottom to the very top without stopping and used to race each other.
I think we felt sorry for the RPF guys and if they had to run everywhere then we most of the time would to.
Another thing we had to do occasionally, was take peoples stuff over to the carpark where personal belongings were stored. This was really dark with no lights and I couldnt see how anyone would ever be able to find their stuff once it was installed there. I did ask Aileen, but she was so tired all the time her answer made no sense whatsoever.
Did anyone get their stuff/car back out of there?
One gardening thing I learnt, was from a guy who had brought his roses with him.
He had dug these dirty big holes along the roadside grass verges, filled them with water then planted out his roses.
I had never seen anyone do this before so I stopped to ask why he did this and had abit of a chat with him about gardening in general- not something I had had much to do with at that point.
I dont recall having to have a meal ticket to get fed, we had our own ITO students table.Most of the time I was happy with the food, there was the beans and rice which I thought I would never eat ever again when I came home, but rice is still one of my favourite foods.
My upset was when we heard that there was going to be sweet potatoes for dinner- KUMARA!! I thought, so too did the Aussies, we ran to dinner....only to poke round our plate looking for this elusive treat. 'Where is it?' we asked, quite disappointed.'There'they said point to this long thin stringy looking thing.I almost cried.Our 'sweet potatoe' or Kumara, as we call it, is nice and Fat and a yellowish purple colour, nothing like what was on our plate-that was sort of Orange and skinny.
Another time, there was peanut butter,oh, hadnt had that in sooo long, I took big glob of it only to spit it out. 'Its sweet! UGGh'.Tasted just nasty. We have our peanut butter salty, the way its supposed to be.
There was one guy from Kentucky, who seemed absolutely bewildered by us down under types.
I dont think he understood half of what we said. Ken, I think his name was.(or maybe that was our nickname for him, cant remember).. 'You-all talk sooooo fast'
We thought he talked soooo sloooow.We learnt how to talk Kennntucky style, hilarious.
He and a another guy took us to the supermarket one night after course. Not a big deal you think,Wrong!haha.
We had never seen such a large carpark and couldnt figure out how you could ever find your car again when the car park was full.
'Why is it open so late when there is nobody here?'Shops closed around 6pm back then t home and there was no such thing as shops open all night.We were fascinated by this.
He took me downtown one day too.I got to see that building that only has 3 sides and seems to disappear when you look at if from a certain part of the street.
We were in some downtown square when it was getting quite late, all the office workers were scurrying home and he was getting quite concerned, saying we had to go now cos it wasnt safe to be here anymore....'What?', There was a group of rough looking guys who had wandered into the square and started with the catcalling, so we left in a hurry.
Another time I caught a bus with a girl from Sydney.We were going to Santa Monica beach.We had no idea how far away if was and had left it too late in the day, which we didnt find out til we got there.I think the bus driver must have known we didnt know that his bus did a turnaround back to where we came from, or, that his was the last bus for the day and made a point of telling us, could have been a bit of a disaster if he hadnt. So all we got was, get off the bus, look at the beach, get on the bus again and go home.Bummer.
Just remembered something about That seriously rundown joint.
Once again, I was at the CLO for 'handling' and staying at the Redfern house(what a DUMP!)
I was bone tired when I got there and didnt get much sleep.
We were woken up early one morning by some asshole banging on the front door screaming something or rather from outside.
Without thinking, I said in what I thought was a quiet, albeit, disgruntled manner,....."just,shut the Fuck UP!'
WELL!, the place Had been deathly quite til then but boy did it just erupt.
Somebody in our room demanded to know who had said that....I wasnt owning up being too embarassed when I realised I had said it out loud instead of quietly.
I could hear the guys upstairs jumping out of bed and racing down the stairs- anything too get out of the place.
Apparently, it was the mother of some new SO recruit, who had discovered what her darling boy had joined and where said darling was living...highly indignant and even by todays standards was being quite obnoxious outside the front door.
Said Darling, later 'blew' due to this fiasco.......glad to have been of service.
Mischief,
Its funny how I,m experiencing the same , symtoms, and just yesterday had to tell myself to leave the EXSM alone other wise It will eat me all up.
I guess not having anything to do with the church since mid 80s i destimulated ,and had no desire to even read anything. until 3xmonths ago when Mark Whitter rung me , and jokingly , said , youve got to come over to the opening of Sydney Ideal org after all you bought it, Not my happy time, dealing with the wankers up line,could have got on a plane to the MECCA OF PERFECTION AND SHOT THEM,
EXSM has been good to fill in the missing pieces, the screwed up tech, I personally think the internet will kill scn , as its uncontrollable, though theyre doing a good job at plugging holes.
"One has to stop thinking," a sign of being trapped , and get back to the fun things ,you deserve it ,you did a great job at AUCKLAND ORG , you made my life miserable but i love you for it , with mom as HAS you were a great team,its a shame that it turned to shit , or maybe not,
I quite often look back at my huge win in SYD on ARC STRAIGHTWIRE,
So I,d be happy with that win I think trying to go up a bridge, would be my worst nightmare .
Hey ya got to laugh at this , Catrin has told me off, Get off that Message board its taking over your life , and go and do some work.
Best, Grant Frires.
Yeah, we were a great team.
I should probably stop calling her 'mum', here, it makes me sound like a little kid and to be honest,our relationship goes way beyond the mother/daughter thing.
She is one of my best friends, I dont actually call her mum unless I have a problem I need help with. Thats our codeword for her to put her mum hat on.
Her name is Pat.
One of her biggest upsets was when I sent her to ITO in LA for OEC/FEBC training.She was replaced as HAS and was to come back as HES.
She had a couple of funny stories, like the time some Texan lady told her she couldnt understand her due to her broad accent- apparently the this lady had a Real Southern accent that was differcult to decipher.
Anyway, while she was there, she had got skreeds of KR's written up on her by the Day Execs.
None of her copies had gone to her via me as they should have done , so I knew nothing of them.
The result of all of this was she was deemed to be unqualified to be there and was booted out to return to us in disgrace,training incomplete.
This was the start of her falling apart.
She alittle while later had some sort of auditing on day lines and got sick.Truth be told she went fucking nuts.I couldnt undertand what the hell was wrong with her.
I didnt know about the auditing, as ED, I was not supposed to be interested in staffs' cases.It was years later we sorted out what the hell had happened, but even now she doesnt remember what the auditing had been on- I m betting messed up DSCI/clear check was part of it, but I dont say that to her.
Around this time, she also had an incident where some drunk male tried to stop her from getting into her car.
She had bought a cappacino at a local takeaway bar, which she threw into his face in order to get him to remove his hands from the car door so she could get in and lock the door to keep him out.
This person then went to the police and lodged a complaint of assault against her.
Now, any self respecting person would surely see that something with his story didnt add up, but no.
They contacted the DOA (now OSA) who promptly hauled her over the coals for causing an out PR situation- harassing the victim.
The police did not press charges however, so perhaps they could see what was wrong with this guys complaint.
How did he know where she worked??? Something about that smells.
She left when she needed to have a hysterectomy. She was very ill following this, mentally and physically and was looked after by her partner Sam.
I did try to get her to come back but she was adamant she would not.
Not knowing what to do, I pretty much got her declared. CMO had done some sort of comm ev uplines and phoned me to get evidence which resulted in her being declared. Not something I m proud of.
At the time I was aware of a policy that stated that 2D's could still be in touch even when one was declared an SP.Since reading stories on this board, I am now in doubt as to whether or not that policy exists, I thought it was called something like "The second dynamic rule".OEC vol 1.
She and Sam moved out of town and we chose not to apply this.
I didnt get in touch with her until I had left staff and had decided not to go back.
Why, because she was mad. because Sam promised me that he would look after her- which he did.
Because if she wasnt declared I would have to recover her and she didnt want to be recovered.
Because I could not handle her crazy space......lots of reasons, but mainly cos I didnt know what to do and it was easier to do nothing.
Chuck Carmichael
Patron
I lived at redfern for a couple years, that placed sucked. I remember there was a dog living there for a while, but I think it got carried off the the roaches. And all the food for the folo and AO was made there. I remember walking by the outside food storage and hearing the scurrying sound of mice feet among the fruit. I heard the roof caved in shortly after everyone moved out. I agree, what a dump.
mischief at large
New Member
Memories and more,
fun and laughter, pain and sorrow,
.....so much for Haiku,
i cant think of a seasonally thing to go with summer and this shit.
fun and laughter, pain and sorrow,
.....so much for Haiku,
i cant think of a seasonally thing to go with summer and this shit.
