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LRH Insane

Tanstaafl

Crusader
We all are identities and we change greatly from lifetime to lifetime.

It has been said that LRH worked on Scn and things like it for many lifetimes. I happen to believe that.

However, in this lifetime, a Lafayette Ronald Hubbard, he appears to have been greedy and self interested from the beginning.

This is something that will come back to bite him, karma-wise or overt/motivator sequence- wise. It already has. It will continue to do so until he takes responsibility for it.

Identities and personalities change greatly from lifetime to lifetime. This I know for a fact.

But you still take your track with you and you still do yourself in due to past overts. The mechanisms are definitely there.

As I said in another thread, I'm not letting LRH off the hook. I'm just not. I'd like to thank him a million times for the good he did, but I'd like to scold him just as many times for the bad stuff he did.

As I've said a few times before, I really really recommend the book Dianetics In Limbo...

The Silver Streak Mechanism alone will be punishment enough! :D
 

MorningDove

New Member
Why else would LRH try and take psychiatric medications.

Possibly he wanted a subjective understanding of the effects of drugs?

I tried lsd back in late 60's, early 70's. I tried other stuff too, but lsd was interesting to me. What lsd does (in my opinion) is push a person straight thru his case to exteriorize. So, he experiences exteriorization (which feels good), but he activates whatever pictures he had to push thru. Thus a person can hallucinate space ships or ancient Egypt, or whatever.

I have often wondered what effect lsd would give me today, with so much auditing behind me. But I don't "wonder" enough to go find some. Also, I don't want to mess up my sessionability.

All the drugs seem to have some piece of case they APPEAR to make better. And also some case they give you. Heroin, for instance suppresses pain, fear, and wanting. Methedrine suppresses lethargy. Those things, tho, key in greater when the drug wears off.

I can see some very inquisitive resercher wanting to study drugs on an intimate level, possibly try to flatten all rsponse to some drugs. Unadvisable, but Ron never accepted limits when he did something.

I'm not saying it happened that way, just offering an alternative possibility.

Dove
 

OHTEEATE

Silver Meritorious Patron
lsd, etc.

The first time I dropped acid, a friend and I went up to a ridge above a lake at 7500 feet elevation. It was Spring with snow still on the ground, but the ridge top was melted out. I started coming "on". After about an hour, I noticed that if I concentrated on a cloud, and thought "dissipate" as a concept, it would evaporate, and not re-form. I did it a few more times, silently, then asked my friend to pick out a cloud. I asked him to watch it. I made it disappear. I asked him to pick out another. I made that one go away, too. As far as I know, I was not hallucinating, nor was he. I think I keyed out enough to be able to control MEST with postulates to a very slight degree. There were no other things that were not normal about the entire trip, except that I did not realize I would be up half the night tripping, and had forgotten I still had to go work at a lodge as a dishwasher for a normal 4 hour shift. That was interesting, on acid.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Possibly he wanted a subjective understanding of the effects of drugs?

I tried lsd back in late 60's, early 70's. I tried other stuff too, but lsd was interesting to me. What lsd does (in my opinion) is push a person straight thru his case to exteriorize. So, he experiences exteriorization (which feels good), but he activates whatever pictures he had to push thru. Thus a person can hallucinate space ships or ancient Egypt, or whatever.

I have often wondered what effect lsd would give me today, with so much auditing behind me. But I don't "wonder" enough to go find some. Also, I don't want to mess up my sessionability.

All the drugs seem to have some piece of case they APPEAR to make better. And also some case they give you. Heroin, for instance suppresses pain, fear, and wanting. Methedrine suppresses lethargy. Those things, tho, key in greater when the drug wears off.

I can see some very inquisitive resercher wanting to study drugs on an intimate level, possibly try to flatten all rsponse to some drugs. Unadvisable, but Ron never accepted limits when he did something.

I'm not saying it happened that way, just offering an alternative possibility.

Dove

I find that an interesting comment, although I wonder about it's applicability to all classes of drugs. I have suffered (unknowingly) since 3 years age from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Once it really takes hold, pain is a way of life.

Heroin is an addictive drug, as is well documented. Methodone is a synthetic replacement intended to reduce the withdrawal from Heroin--yet addicts seem to take years of the stuff to kick the habit, or in some cases they sell their methodone in order to buy more heroin.

Methodone in its own right is supposed to be non-addictive and I have heard of it being prescribed to CFS patients to deal with the ongoing pain--in this case it is supposed to be non-addictive but a brilliant pain-killer (haven't tried it myself, doctors where I live are too conservative).

I found that even at Div6 level, $cn seemed to mostly attract people who already had at least a passing interest in SF*, and it occurred to me that many activities are people chasing "positive" restimulation. SF fen chase the "restimulation" of "space travel, ships, etc.", Rugby/gridiron fen are chasing the "restim" of gladiatorial blood sports while the participants must be dramatizing aspects of being in the same arena.

*Actually it was the suggestion that all this SF stuff was genuine that kept me attached to Nerd Central. But I did propose that some people were chasing "postive" restimulation.

Perhaps Soccer hooligans are re-enacting the Crusades?

This is an incoherent mixture of opinions, I'm not intending to "evaluate" for earthlings.

Sorry if my spelling is out of whack, but I'm under the influence of sleepers, and trying to type this in the dark. Perhaps when I wake up again, I'll be full of glycol and frozen in a block of ice...

Agaom. apologies for spelling from typing in the dark under the effect of sleepers...
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Methodone in its own right is supposed to be non-addictive and I have heard of it being prescribed to CFS patients to deal with the ongoing pain--in this case it is supposed to be non-addictive but a brilliant pain-killer (haven't tried it myself, doctors where I live are too conservative).

Methadone is very certainly addictive.
It's just harder to 'mainline', and, therefore, somewhat harder to 'abuse'. Not by much though.

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
It's just harder to 'mainline', and, therefore, somewhat harder to 'abuse'. Not by much though.

Zinj, can you explain that to me - I don't know the first thing about drugs.
If they are both injected then why is it harder to mainline Methodone?

Cheers

tanstaafl
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Methadone is very certainly addictive.
It's just harder to 'mainline', and, therefore, somewhat harder to 'abuse'. Not by much though.

Zinj

I appreciate your concern, but I am talking about far lower doses for people who don't have Heroin addiction to start with. Remember that Heroin opens up certain pain receptors in the brain which is what makes it so addictive, and methodone eaually.

What is "mainline"? I know next to nothing about the how of street usage.

In a non-junkie who is suffering significant physical pair small doses are supposed to be beneficial. I repeat I haven't tried it.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I appreciate your concern, but I am talking about far lower doses for people who don't have Heroin addiction to start with. Remember that Heroin opens up certain pain receptors in the brain which is what makes it so addictive, and methodone eaually.

What is "mainline"? I know next to nothing about the how of street usage.

In a non-junkie who is suffering significant physical pair small doses are supposed to be beneficial. I repeat I haven't tried it.

Usually morphine is used when opiates are used for pain. Most of the argument nowdays is about legalizing heroin for those so far gone that morphine isn't strong enough. Methadone isn't particularly used, because it's just as addicting as morphine, but no better against pain.

'Mainlining' is street for intravenous use. Most 'street' methadone is mixed to be taken orally, so, it'd be very hard to 'mainline' it, which, along with its pharmaceutical origins, gives it less of a 'black market' reputation. However, one problem is people on 'methadone' trading their methadone for heroin for injecting, since there are a lot of addicts who actually *prefer* methadone.

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
'Mainlining' is street for intravenous use. Most 'street' methadone is mixed to be taken orally, so, it'd be very hard to 'mainline' it, which, along with its pharmaceutical origins, gives it less of a 'black market' reputation. However, one problem is people on 'methadone' trading their methadone for heroin for injecting, since there are a lot of addicts who actually *prefer* methadone.

Thanks Zinj.
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
Okay, thanks. But the medical use to which I was referring was for people who have never been addicted to either, in which case Methodone under supervision is not supposed to become addictive, but some people can become addicted to anything.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Okay, thanks. But the medical use to which I was referring was for people who have never been addicted to either, in which case Methodone under supervision is not supposed to become addictive, but some people can become addicted to anything.

I did a little looking around and discovered that methadone is indeed being used in treating chronic pain, which I hadn't known. The reason for using it, as opposed to morphine or derivatives, is that it's longer lasting and cheaper, and is almost as effective orally as intravenously.

However, it's no less addictive than morphine, whether for morphine addicts or non-addicts, and, the withdrawal is apparently more difficult and more prolonged than that for morphine or heroin.

Go figure :)

Zinj
 

Royal Prince Xenu

Trust the Psi Corps.
I did a little looking around and discovered that methadone is indeed being used in treating chronic pain, which I hadn't known. The reason for using it, as opposed to morphine or derivatives, is that it's longer lasting and cheaper, and is almost as effective orally as intravenously.

However, it's no less addictive than morphine, whether for morphine addicts or non-addicts, and, the withdrawal is apparently more difficult and more prolonged than that for morphine or heroin.

Go figure :)

Zinj

The material that I read was regarding CFS patients self-regulating their dosages and quite frequently after getting established, the daily dose became significantly less than the initial dosage. As CFS has never been cured, I guess addiction is not an issue, because you're on treatment for the lifetime of the body.
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Methadone is very certainly addictive.
It's just harder to 'mainline', and, therefore, somewhat harder to 'abuse'. Not by much though.

Zinj

Methadone is actually many times more addictive than heroin. And taken for a long enough period, it will kill you.

The only reason it's harder to mainline is because the pharmacist mixes it with orange juice to prevent desperate addicts from shooting up their whole weeks supply the first day.

Overdoses of methadone appear much like a heroin overdose and they can kill. Withdrawals from it are horrific.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Heroin was, decades ago, thought to be less addictive than opium so for a while, they were prescribing it.

I think what's been found is that all opiates are very addictive.
 

Björkist

Silver Meritorious Patron
I'm happy that all the BAD DRUGS are now illegal while the REALLY GOOD DRUGS can be mass marketed and given to infants, the elderly, animals and anyone else who qualifies.

It's good to know that philanthropists run this place.
 

haiqu

Patron Meritorious
Okay, thanks. But the medical use to which I was referring was for people who have never been addicted to either, in which case Methodone under supervision is not supposed to become addictive, but some people can become addicted to anything.

For a drug to be addictive there are three factors of note.

1) Physical tolerance
2) Psychological tolerance
3) Subjective beneficial effect

Tolerance in this case means that more is required to achieve the same effect, or "buzz".

So, by definition chocolate isn't addictive, since physical tolerance isn't present. Nor is marijuana, since it has a reverse tolerance i.e. lesser quantity is required to achieve the same effect over time.

However, some people of weaker will can, as you say, consider themselves addicted to anything.

haiqu
 
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